A reply from Roger
Carvell along with a
colour shot of the
remains of Conwy station
in 1985 are shown below.
Geoff,
Just found this pic in
Larry Goddard's
excellent colour
album.
Below the two
Class 20s, there is
the remains of the
station wall with
entrance/exit door
with nice arch.
Dirty, purple
redbrick! Grey stone
arch.
I suspect the brick
colour is the same as
Mold as that station
was under the CHR as
well.
Cheers, Roger
December 7th 2014.
An email asking for
information for a new
book about Llandudno
Junction station by
Geoffrey Barnes is
published below.
If anyone can help
please email me through
the address on the
HOMEPAGE.
Dear
Geoff,
I am contemplating a
book dealing with the
24 hours at Llandudno
Junction on Saturday
27 July 1957, when the
railways were,
arguably, at their
post-War
height. Whilst I
have
that
summer's L.M.
Passenger Timetable as
my basis - from
which much may be
deduced - there
would nonetheless
still be much missing
from the overall
picture, and I am
therefore
wondering how much
detail could be filled
in by yourself
and/or
others associated
with the 6G
website. Any such
help would of course
be acknowledged in any
publication.
For example: I can see
from the timetable
that first Down
working to call at LLJ
(as I must abbreviate
the station: it is not
un-amusing to discover
that
this is also the
National Rail ticket
code) was the 10.20pm
ex-Manchester
Exchange, booked to
arrive 12.51am, and
depart 12.54am.
I am hence
assuming it stood for
these three minutes on
Down Fast Platform 3,
and would also
guess that it was
booked for a
Black Five,
running under express
passenger head code.
(?)
However, Saturday
mornings only,
it was held for no
less than 14
minutes, departing
only at 1.05am, and
the reason for
this appears to
be (as I infer
from the
timetable) to
allow the passage of
the through-running
9.55pm ex-Birmingham
New Street, which left
Chester only some
14 minutes
behind the Manchester,
and would be hard on
its heels even by
Colwyn Bay,
since the
Manchester, unlike the
Birmingham, had
called at
Prestatyn, Rhyl,
and Colwyn Bay before
LLJ.
I
therefore take
it that the
Manchester was brought
into Down Slow
Platform 4 by No.1
Signal Box, in order
to leave Down Fast
Platform 3 clear
for the Birmingham.
Any confirmation
available? I'm
also going to guess
the Birmingham was
likewise hauled by a
Black Five. (?)
However,
depending on the
running of that night,
it may well be that
the Manchester was put
onto the Down Slow at
Colwyn Bay, allowing
the Birmingham to
overtake it on
the four miles of
quadruple track
between Colwyn Bay and
LLJ; just wondering if
this ever happened?
I'm
writing this from
Cambridge Central
Library somewhat on
the spur of the
moment, having been
browsing your 6G
website.
As a result, I'm
working from memory
with regard to the
exact timings, so they
may be slightly 'out'.
However, as a taster
for any help
that might be
able to be given, I
suppose this first
working of the day
might stand as
good an example as
any.
Incidentally, the
usual 3-minute stay of
the Manchester at
LLJ doesn't
suggest any
unloading/loading of
mail, or unloading of
newspapers (?); in
fact, a
10.20 departure
from Manchester
Exchange would have
probably been too
early for even the
first
editions.
I
hope I do not
underestimate the work
as would be involved
in any such book;
indeed, I ruefully
read Chris Evans'
remarks on his 6G
pages concerning
the planning and
building of his LLJ
model: I see the
parallel, and wonder
if my proposal might
transpire to become
too great a task.
We'll see........
Regards,
Geoffrey Barnes.
December 18th 2014.
A detailed answer by
John Hobbs, to the above
query, is shown below.
I
can confirm from the
1964 Working timetable
that the 10.20 pm from
Manchester Exchange to
Holyhead was put on
the Down Slow at
Colwyn Bay
No1; it is marked
"SL" & " X"
which is booked slow
line for other trains
to pass - on a Friday
Night/Saturday
morning; if it
was so this late
in the day then the
practice would likely
have occurred in
earlier years.
Also;
The District
Controllers View" by
J.P.Williams by
"Express Publishing
would also form a
useful source for
North Wales coast
traffic
problems/questions;
it was the practice
for Holyhead traffic
to be put on the Down
Slow, at Colwyn Bay ,
on Saturdays for
example to
avoid
conflicting moves at
Llandudno Junction.
The
10.20 from
Manchester would
be a "Royal
Scot/Patriot" as the
traction of choice or
a "Britannia", then a
Black 5 depending on
the era/time of
year and hence the
loading; the last time
a "Patriot" appeared
was on the 27th August
1965 ( unless you
can prove otherwise);
it would
normally have
been an EE Type 4 by
then.
Also:-
There
was a separate "News"
train from Manchester
at 1.18 am (1.40 am
Su.O.)which ran to
Bangor; all the night
time trains, which
stopped at
Rhyl were Slow
Line from Muspratts
Sidings ( Flint)
because Rhyl No1 Box
was shut at night.
After Muspratts
Sidings closed the
trains were put on the
Slow at Bagillt and
eventually as the Slow
line was
torn up; they
were put on the Slow
at Prestatyn ( there
were however
exceptions).
The
"News" train was
interesting because
following the
introduction of DMU's
on most coast
services at the
start of
February 65, it
started producing
Jubilees, B1's and
Black 5's & even a
K1, these were from
North Eastern sheds
e.g. Low Moor &
Wakefield etc.
These often
ended up on 16.45
Holyhead to Manchester
the following evening
or on the meat
container trains
from Holyhead to
London/York.
Examples
being 61017 on the 4th
March, 61019 on the
10th April, 45694 on
the 23rd March 1966;
some of these
locomotives also
appeared
on the Chester
to Shrewsbury line
having been taken off
the "News" at
Chester for some
reason.
I could only
travel on the 16.45 ex
Holyhead train
on a Friday so no
doubt it occurred on
other days as well.
There is
photographic evidence
to support all this,
the B1 s were also
used by 6G on
occasions on Engineers
trains at this time.
The
"Irish Mail" 1D85 8.55
pm conveyed
"Mails" and
connected with the
00.10 from Warrington
to Chester (which
connected with the
"West Coast Postal");
which
also conveyed
"Mails" ( this was
also one of the last
steam hauled trains in
the area) well into
1968 - it probably
lasted until
Patricroft closed to
steam.
Prior to March
1967 a "Q"
train also operated
from Shrewsbury to
Chester to connect
with the "Irish Mail";
in the event of
trains from
the South West
running late.
November 4th 2014.Report
by Roger Carvell.
THE
GRESLEY SOCIETY
TRUST TO ERECT
STATUE OF SIR NIGEL
GRESLEY AT
LONDON’S KING’S
CROSS STATION.
Permissions
granted by Network
Rail,
Camden Borough
Council, and
English Heritage.
London’s
King’s Cross
station is to
be graced by a
statue of Sir
Nigel Gresley,
the renowned
mechanical
engineer who
designed
locomotives,
carriages and
wagons
for the London
& North
Eastern
Railway from
1923 until his
death in April
1941.
His
achievements
include the
design of
Mallard, the
fastest steam
locomotive in
the world,
Flying
Scotsman, and
famous
streamline
high
speed trains
such as Silver
Jubilee in
1935 and
Coronation in
1937.
He
also invented
vehicle
articulation,
still used by
railway and
tramway
engineers
around the
world to this
day.
Sir Nigel was
knighted for
his services
to the LNER in
1936.
The
bronze statue
will be a
standing
figure about
seven feet six
inches tall,
on the same
scale as the
figure of Sir
John Betjeman
next door
at
St. Pancras
station.
It
will be
sculpted by
Hazel Reeves
SWA, FRSA, who
also sculpted
maquettes of
the figure to
assist the
Gresley
Society Trust
in obtaining
permissions
to erect the
statue.
Hazel
Reeves’ final
maquette will
now be used by
the Gresley
Society Trust
in raising
money for the
statue.
The expected
cost is
£95,000, which
the Society is
now seeking to
raise by
public
subscription.
Donations may
be made to the
Gresley
Society Trust
through its
website, http://gresley.org/
It is
hoped that all
who admire the
work of Sir
Nigel will
wish to be
associated
with the
statue by
contributing
to its cost.
The statue will be
placed in the Western
Concourse, beside the
entrance to the Ticket
Office, by the wall to
West Offices
where Sir Nigel
and his principal
assistants worked
until the outbreak of
war.
Sir Nigel’s
likeness will be
standing in a familiar
pose, holding a copy
of The Locomotive
magazine.
He will be accompanied
by a Mallard, symbolic
of his most famous
locomotive.
Sir Nigel was
known for rearing
mallards at his
pre-war home,
Salisbury Hall, near
St Albans.
The
accompanying wall
plaque will carry a QR
code, which visitors
to the statue may scan
by smart phone, to
direct them to the
Society’s
website.
It is planned to
unveil the statue on 5
April 2016, the 75th
anniversary of the
death of Sir Nigel.
David McIntosh,
Chairman of the
Gresley Society Trust,
said: “This is
an inspiring project
for the Society.
In the past we
have erected memorials
of various kinds in
Edinburgh, York and
beside the line where
Mallard achieved her
record speed,
and now we are to
honour Sir Nigel in
London, where he had
his office for the
last and
most productive
eighteen years of his
life.”
Hazel Reeves,
sculptor, said: “I am
greatly excited to be
deeply involved in
this project.
Ever since I
was asked to make
proposals for the
statue, and to create
maquettes for its
evolution, I have been
aware
of Sir Nigel
Gresley and his
considerable
contribution to the
field of engineering.
Now that we
have permission to
erect a full-size
statue at King’s
Cross, I can express
my admiration for the
man in a very real
way.”
September 30th 2014.
RAIL INVESTMENT WILL BE
A HUGE BOOST TO NORTH
WALES.
Thursday,
25 September,
2014.
Commenting
on a statement
published by the
Labour government
today on rail
improvements in North
Wales, which
reiterates the UK
Government’s
10.4 million pounds
investment in the
‘Halton Curve’ and
confirms Network
Rail’s detailed
proposals will be
published in the New
Year, Welsh
Conservative Shadow
Minister for Transport
Byron Davies AM, said:
“The
Conservative-led
government’s
investment in this
project is hugely
welcome and we now
look forward to
Network Rail’s plans
for development.
“This
project will make a
huge difference to
North Wales, both for
commuters, tourism,
and the economy as a
whole.
“It
is another example of
Conservatives
delivering for Wales
and I am delighted
that plans are moving
forward.”
Clwyd
West Assembly Member,
Darren Millar, who has
also been campaigning
for the project for
many years, said:
“This
is a hugely exciting
development that will
provide a huge boost
for North Wales".
“I
have been campaigning
for years to get a
direct service between
North Wales and
Liverpool reinstated –
and I am delighted
that the UK
Government has
provided this
investment".
“I
look forward to seeing
further plans from
Network Wales and urge
the Welsh Labour
Government to ensure
development begins as
soon as possible.”
September 25th 2014.
(Article taken from the
Liverpool Echo)
VIRGIN TRAIN DRIVER
INJURED BY OVERHEAD
POWER LINE AT RUNCORN.
A train driver
given an electric
shock by a fallen
power cable was today
in a “stable”
condition in hospital.
The Virgin
Trains employee was
injured on Tuesday
night (23/09/14) after
getting out of his
cabin to inspect an
overhead power line
that had come down.
A spokesman for
the company told the
ECHO the driver was in
a “stable condition
while receiving
treatment in
hospital”.
He stopped the
train near Runcorn
after noticing the
fallen cable.
He got an
electric shock while
searching for a marker
on the track so he
could report his
location to rail
controllers.
More than 160
passengers were
stranded for up to two
hours on the train –
heading from London
Euston station to
Liverpool Lime Street
– while paramedics
tended to the injured
driver.
Other trains
including two London
Midland services full
of passengers were
also stuck on the line
behind the Virgin
train.
September 21st 2014.
ABERGELE
EARLY MORNING TRAIN
SERVICE SAVED.
Friday,
5 September,
2014
Arriva
Trains Wales have
agreed to continue to
provide an early
morning service from
Abergele to Manchester
after Clwyd West AM
Darren Millar wrote to
the
company highlighting
local concerns about
the proposed axing of
the service.
(see August 22nd
2014 posting below)
Commuters
were concerned that
Arriva’s proposed new
timetables, which come
into affect in
December, include
scrapping the current
0644 service from
Llandudno to
Manchester via
Warrington, which
stops at all stations
including Abergele.
In
his letter to Arriva,
Darren voiced his
strong objection to
the changes and called
for a better service
to Manchester which
stops in Abergele.
Responding
this week, a spokesman
for Arriva Trains
Wales told Darren that
the issue has been
resolved by inserting
an additional stop
into the 0514 hrs
service from Holyhead
to
Manchester Piccadilly
(arriving 0818 hrs),
which will depart
Abergele and Pensarn
at 0620 hrs.
They
said:
"The
overall aim of the
changes is to increase
seating capacity
between North Wales
and Manchester and
Birmingham, an issue
which is regularly
highlighted to
us by customers and
stakeholders alike.
To make this increase
in capacity we have
procured another
locomotive-hauled
train comprising four
cars which, in turn,
allows us to
strengthen other
hard-pressed
services shown on the
attachment."
Darren
said:
"This
is fantastic news
and I would like to
thank Arriva Trains
Wales for listening
to the concerns of
local commuters and
adapting their
proposed timetable
accordingly.
"The
early morning service
provides a good
opportunity for
commuters and business
travellers to the city
from the Abergele area
and its loss would
have been felt deeply.
Employment
opportunities are not
always available
locally so it is vital
that we give
travellers from North
Wales the rail service
they need."
August 24th 2014.
An article taken from
The Daily Post in July
2014 is reproduced
below.
New
North Wales to
Manchester train
services launched in
£1.2m deal.
New
rail services
between North Wales
and Manchester
Piccadilly are due
to be launched in
December following a
£1.2m deal between
the
Department for
Transport and Arriva
Trains Wales.
The new services
will mean “at least
2,450 extra seats
across the morning
and evening peaks
every week”.
Under the plans
announced by
Transport Secretary
Patrick McLoughlin
today, the train
operator will run an
additional
locomotive and four
carriages.
The new services,
backed by the Welsh
Government, are
intended to help
passengers and local
businesses on the
popular routes
between
Llandudno and
Holyhead to
Manchester and
Birmingham.
The routes include
Manchester
Piccadilly to
Holyhead; Holyhead
to Manchester
Piccadilly; and
Manchester
Piccadilly to
Llandudno.
There will also be a
Chester to
Manchester
Piccadilly service.
Transport Secretary
Mr McLoughlin said:
“This is good news
for passengers
travelling between
England and Wales. I
know how popular
these services are,
so it’s important to
get extra carriages
and seats on the
network.
“It will mean better
connections for
thousands of
passengers, and is
further proof our
long term economic
plan is on track,
making a
real difference to
hard-working
people.”
Network Rail plans
to spend £38bn over
the next five years.
According to the
Department for
Transport: “The deal
has been made
possible through
money paid to the
department by
Deutsche Bahn,
following the
company’s
acquisition of
Arriva Plc. Under
the current rail
industry
framework train
companies are
required to pay a
Change of Control
Fee when changes to
the operator are
made.”
Ian Bullock,
Managing Director of
Arriva Trains Wales,
said: “We would like
to thank both the
Department for
Transport
and the Welsh
Government for
supporting the
provision of extra
capacity on some of
our busiest routes.
Improved service
performance levels
and the increased
popularity of
sustainable
transport has led to
more than 75% growth
in
passenger numbers
using our Manchester
and Birmingham
services since our
Wales and Borders
franchise began in
late 2003.
“This extra capacity
will help us better
meet the demand
along these key
routes and hopefully
encourage even more
passengers to use
the rail network.”
August 22nd 2014.
ABERGELE
EARLY MORNING TRAIN
SERVICE TO BE AXED.
Clwyd
West AM Darren
Millar has written
to Arriva Trains
Wales after learning
that its proposed
new timetable does
not include an
early morning
service from
Abergele to
Manchester.
The
proposals show that
from December, the
current 0644 service
from Llandudno to
Manchester via
Warrington, which
stops at
all stations
including Abergele,
is to be axed,
North
Wales commuters
needing to be in
Manchester or
Warrington by 9am
for work will have
to leave Colwyn Bay
half an hour earlier
at 0613, but this
service will
not be stopping at
Abergele.
Commuters
have also raised
concerns that the
current 0552 direct
Manchester service
out of Colwyn Bay is
also under threat.
Darren
said:
“I
am very concerned to
hear of these
proposed changes as
many commuters
depend on the early
morning service from
Abergele to get them
to work before 9am
and it is
shameful that
their needs have not
been taken into
consideration in
drawing up the new
timetable.
“I
have therefore
written to Arriva
Trains Wales
highlighting the
concerns raised with
me and calling for a
better service to
Manchester which
stops in Abergele.#
We must
ensure that North
Wales travellers
have the rail
service they need.”
July 4th 2014.
DIRECT RAIL LINK
BETWEEN NORTH WALES
AND LIVERPOOL TO BE
RE-ESTABLISHED.
Clwyd
West AM Darren
Millar, who has been
campaigning for
years for a direct
rail link between
North Wales and
Liverpool, has
expressed his
delight at a UK
Government
announcement of £10M
plus to pave the way
for a service to be
re-established.
The
Chancellor has
announced that as
part of a package of
measures to support
Liverpool’s science
and transport
infrastructure,
£10.4 million will
be provided to
upgrade the
Halton Curve rail
line to improve
connectivity between
Liverpool, Cheshire,
Warrington and North
Wales.
Darren,
who over the years
has repeatedly
called on the Welsh
Government to work
with the UK
Government to
restore direct rail
services
between Liverpool
and North Wales,
said:
"I
have been
campaigning for
years to get a
direct service
between North Wales
and Liverpool
reinstated, so I am
absolutely delighted
by today’s
announcement.
"Liverpool
is an important
commercial centre
and improving
transport links will
provide a huge boost
to the North Wales
economy in terms of
access
to jobs and
promoting tourism.
Shifting passengers
from road to rail is
also good for the
environment.
"North
Wales has not
enjoyed a direct
rail link with
Liverpool since the
1970s, when it was
incredibly popular
for shoppers,
commuters and
tourists.
“This
is a very exciting
development and I
look forward to
seeing the huge
benefits it will
bring to North
Wales.”
June 15th 2014.
CAN ANYONE HELP?
An email from
Anthony Ashley,
who is building
the "N" gauge
model layout of
Bangor Penmaenmawr
and Conwy, is
reproduced below
with an appeal
for any
information
regarding blood
and custard
coaches in 1960.
Any information
can be sent to the
website by the
email link on the
HOMEPAGE.
Dear Geoff,
I have been trying to
determine if there
were any blood and
custard coaches
still around in
1960 and perhaps a
ratio to Maroon.
I have checked all photos
on the 6G web site
and there seem to
be very few.
Do you or other
readers have any
ideas ?.
Regards, Anthony
Ashley.
April
30th 2014
The
Railway
Correspondence and
Travel Society
The
RCTS undertook
the following
survey on
Saturday 4th
August 1962 and
a team of
Observers, led
by Mr
C.W.F.Smith,
spread out along
the North Wales
coast to
undertake
observations
which are
reflected in the
survey.
The
survey
includes a
commentary on
what was seen
and why things
happened
during the
day.
Credit for the
Copyright is
to the RCTS.
The Railway
Correspondence
and Travel
Society -
Merseyside,
Chester and
North Wales
Branch holds
meetings at :-
The
Town Crier,
City Road,
Chester, CH1
3AE at 19.30
on advertised
dates.
Also see their
web site at www.rcts.org.uk
OPEN
SURVEY
May 11th 2014.
An email from
John Hobbs
detailing some
interesting
observations
on the above
subject is
reproduced
below.
One
of the things
which mazes me
about social
history, is
the time which
people had to
get up to
catch
these
holiday
trains, as
they served
the whole of
Birmingham!
Surely
you would have
to get up at 3
or 4 o' clock
in time to
catch a local
train or bus
to New Street
etc. at 06.40.
There
were similar
early
departures
from
Manchester and
other
industrial
cities.
One
wonders how
this was
organized.
Also
interesting in
the RCTS
survey is that
all trains to
Pen-y-chain
changed
locomotives at
Caernarvon,
thus all the
eight or ten
2-6-4
T locomotives,
which worked
these trains
to and from
Afonwen, were
away from
Bangor before
the Surveyors
got there and
all
the associated
ECS workings
from Holyhead
and Llandudno
at the
beginning and
end of the day
were also not
observed.
Some
of this stock
arrived on
boat trains
from Euston
and worked
boat trains on
Sunday night
from Holyhead
back to
Birmingham
Leeds and
Euston.
Also
the
locomotives
which
re-engined
outbound
trains must
have been
turned at
Caernarvon.
Regards John.
February 23rd
2014. Photo
below by Allan
Judd shows the
final
gathering of
the surviving
6 A4's at
Shildon, on
February 19th
2014, before
they are all
'repatriated'.
February 19th
2014. Alan
Roberts tells
me that he
noticed a sad
announcement
in the Daily
Post today.
I saw
and read today
in the Daily
Post it was
quite sad to
see that Vic
Thomas
ex-Llandudno
Junction
driver has
passed away
aged 78.
Think he
started back
at Rhyl shed
and for many
years was
based in
Chester before
transferring
to Llandudno
Junction.
Alan Roberts.
February
23rd 2014.
Some kind
words and
memories of
Vic by Ex-6G
driver Barry W
Taylor are
shown below.
Just
read of the
sad news of ex
Junction
driver Vic
Thomas.
I knew
Vic well from
when I started
as a trainman
at Llandudno
Junction, he
was also my
Minder Driver
when I was
doing my
driver
training.
He had lots of
sayings some I
cannot print
but one was
when you
approached a
signal at
danger Vic
would say
"this side of
the signal is
yours the
other side
belongs to the
signalman" has
always stuck
in my mind.
Another he
told me was
when we where
on our way to
Amlwch with
the tanks
early one
morning
(03:45) he
said "this is
the worst job
in
the world" and
when we
returned to
the Junction
at about !0:30
he said "this
is the best
job in the
world".
He was a
proper
railwayman and
will be missed
I'm sure by
lots of people
Barry W
Taylor.
An
email from
David Thomas
(nephew of Vic
Thomas) is
reproduced
below.
Hello
Geoff,
I
have just read
the kind words
expressed by
former
colleagues
concerning the
sad passing of
my late Uncle,
Vic Thomas, ex
Llandudno
Junction
driver.
Vic
was certainly
a character
and I have
fond memories
of him as a
young lad when
on occasions I
would meet him
at Dyserth
Station
(former
Prestatyn-Meliden-Dyserth
branch line)
when he used
to collect the
lime wagons
from the
quarry-empty
wagons were
shunted
across a
bridge as it
was too weak
to handle the
steam engine
itself and
gravity did
the rest! I
had many a
ride on the
engine-what a
thrill.
Years
later after he
retired Vic
was often
asked to drive
heritage
engines along
the North
Wales Coast
and I recall
once he rang
me and asked
me
to bring
my own young
son to
Llandudno
Junction as he
was bringing
in a "special"
engine;
I don't
recall which
one but on
arrival he
proceeded to
lift my son
onto the
foot-plate
with him.
With
this, some
very official
type/
transport
inspector who
was also on
the foot-plate
told Vic that
children were
not allowed on
the engine and
it was
against
regulations;
Vic took
exception to
this and
responded by
climbing off
the engine
with my son in
his arms and
duly told the
poor man
that
given his
"attitude"
he'd best
drive the
ruddy engine
to Holyhead
himself!!
I can
still see that
man's look of
utter horror
as Vic strode
off down the
platform;
needless to
say he did
eventually go
back to the
engine,
as did my son!
Happy Days.
Vic
was indeed
based at
Chester for
many years and
at Llan.
Junction and
he retired to
live in
Rhuddlan.
He is
survived by
his wife Betty
and his
daughter Sian
and sons Gwyn
and Gareth.
His
funeral took
place at
Colwyn Bay
Crematorium
last Monday
24th Feb 2014
and it was
lovely to see
many former
Llan. Junction
and Chester
railwaymen
paying
their respects
to him.
If
anyone has any
photos of Vic
at work I will
be grateful
for a copy as
Vic wasn't the
best with a
camera!
Thank
you for
mentioning him
in your news;
it means a lot
to the family.
Kindest
Regards, David
P Thomas
January 31st
2014.
No
mention of
North
Wales-Liverpool
direct rail
link in
Minister’s
Statement
Wednesday,
29 January,
2014.
Clwyd
West AM Darren
Millar, who
has been
campaigning
for years to
get a direct
rail service
between
North
Wales and
Liverpool
reinstated, is
disappointed
that the
Transport
Minister made
no reference
to this when
she provided
an update on
Transport
Policy in the
Assembly
Chamber this
week.
North
Wales has not
enjoyed a
direct rail
link with
Liverpool
since the
1970s, when it
was incredibly
popular for
shoppers,
commuters and
tourists.
Darren
has long been
calling for
the service to
be
re-established
and was hoping
the Transport
Minister would
provide an
update on
developments
in this area
in her
Statement.
Addressing
the Minister
in the Senedd,
Darren said:
"One
thing that you
did not
mention, or
provide an
update on, was
the potential
for a direct
rail link to
Liverpool.
As you
know,
Liverpool is
an extremely
important
commercial
centre for the
people of
north Wales,
and
the
north Wales
tourism
industry
relies
significantly
on people
visiting from
Liverpool and
the wider
Merseyside
area.
So, I
wonder what
discussions
you and your
officials may
have been
having with
the Department
for Transport
in the UK
regarding the
re-establishment
of that direct
link along the
Halton curve."
The
Minister
responded by
indicating
that she would
ask the
Ministerial
Task force on
North Wales
Transport,
which was
established to
make the
case for
electrification
of the North
Wales rail
line, to add
the issue to
their agenda.
Darren
added:
"As
a large
commercial
centre with
strong links
to North
Wales, there
is no doubt
that improving
the transport
infrastructure
between
Liverpool
and North
Wales would
provide a much
needed boost
to the
economy.
Whilst
I welcome the
fact that the
Minister will
now ensure
that this
issue is given
serious
consideration,
this should
not have
been an
afterthought,
especially
given that the
North East
Wales
Integrated
Transport Task
Force Report
recognised
this and
recommended
last summer
that the line
should be
reinstated.
"I
have been
campaigning
for years for
the
reinstatement
of this
service and I
will continue
pressing the
Welsh
Government to
take this
issue
forward."
January 14th
2014. An email
from Ian Cook
with an appeal
for help is
reproduced
below.
Geoff,
I was
wondering if
you could help
me, as
mentioned in
my data page I
never kept a
copy of my
spotting notes
from my first
visit to
Crewe.
I have
been doing a
little
research re my
first visit
and can
clearly
remember
Duchess 46251
'City of
Nottingham'
departing on a
railtour
soon
after I
arrived on my
train from
Stockport. I
know the visit
was in the
autumn of 1963
and after
checking the
railtour
records on the
Six
Bells Junction
web site and
now know the
date of the
visit was
Saturday 5th
October 1963.
As this was
the date of an
RCTS railtour
from
Crewe to
Edinburgh
Princess
Street
Station.
Do you
know any good
forums where I
could ask if
anyone still
has a record
of Crewe for
the day? i.e.
Crewe station,
Crewe North
MPD
and
Crewe Diesel
MPD.
I
remember
viewing my
first GWR
steam loco
arrive mid
afternoon at
Crewe with a
parcels
service from
the south. I
presume this
parcels
service
had arrived
via either
Shrewsbury or
via the SVR
route i.e.
Kidderminster,
Bridgnorth and
Market
Drayton. The
loco was a
Grange
and I
thought it was
6825 but this
might be
wrong. I can
also remember
large numbers
of LMS loco's
stored on
Crewe North
MPD between
the
main running
shed and the
semi
roundhouse.
The loco's
included
significant
numbers of
Duchess, Royal
Scot, Patriot
and Jubilee
classes.
In
addition I
remember a
couple of
Patriots
working into
Crewe on that
day, think
these were
45526
Morecambe and
Heysham and
45527
Southport.
Any
help would be
much
appreciated.
Thanks
Ian.
January 3rd
2014. An email
from Peter
Wolfe is
reproduced
below.
Peter asks for
details about
the stored
engines at 6G
in the late
50's / early
60's.
A list from
1963 appears
on the 6G ALLOCATED ENGINES page which may be
of help.
Many
thanks for the
wonderful
website.
It
really brings
back memories
of happy
holidays in
the area where
more time was
spent at Rhyl
station or on
top of the
chalets at
Penmaenmawr.
Watching
trains rather
than on the
beach.
I
wonder if you
could help me.
I would
like to find
the numbers of
the engines
that were on
the scrap line
at 6G in the
late 1950s or
early 1960s.
I
realise that
the engines
changed,
but at
the time I am
thinking of
the line
contained a
couple of LMS
2P 4-4-0s and
a LMS Compound
as well as
other engines.
Kind
Regards. P.
Wolfe
Another email
from Peter is
reproduced
below.
Hi
Geoff, Many
thanks for
your E-mail.
It
was the great
photos that
reminded me of
seeing those
engines on the
6G stored
line. If
memory serves
I saw them
from an early
Derby DMU
from
Blaenau
Ffestiniog on
a rail cruise
which part of
the tour was
on a Crosville
coach, as I
guess some of
the lines had
closed by
then.
I
was also
fortunate to
have travelled
on one of The
North Wales
Land cruise
specials that
was all steam,
travelling
from Rhyl
through
Afonwen,
Barmouth,
Corwen and
Denbigh.
Pete.
December 11th
2013.
An email from
Trevor A
Tremethick is
reproduced
below.
Dear Mr
Poole
I have
just visited
your website
for the first
time and found
it very
valuable.
I have
been
particularly
interested in
Ian
Cook’s record
of locomotives
in the scrap
lines at
Stockport
Edgeley Shed
(9B) for March
to May 1967.
I went
to Edgeley
with a friend
on 16 April
1967 and, as
we passed the
scrap lines
(which I think
were south of
the shed), we
noticed
a line
of engines
including
Ivatt 2-6-2
tanks for
which we did
not record
numbers.
Perhaps
they were just
too far away.
For many years
I have
wondered –
with only a
hazy memory of
the line of
locos –
how many
Ivatts were in
the line-up
and which ones
they were. I
think Mr
Cook’s record
has answered
that
question
in that the
two locos left
were 41220 and
41233.
I would
be very
interested
should he have
any more
information on
the scrap
Ivatts (e.g.
where the ones
removed for
transit to
Wards at
Killamarsh
were held).
As a
matter of
interest, we
were able to
visit the shed
at Edgeley and
I still have
my notes of
that day.
We went
on to visit
Crewe South
(5B) and Crewe
Works.
I think
we totalled
some 100 steam
spotted that
day, although
most were
simmering on
shed and some,
of course,
withdrawn.
Perhaps
you could pass
on my thanks
to Mr Cook for
making such
copious notes
at the time
and solving my
long standing
mystery.
Happy
days.
Regards
Trevor A
Tremethick
Ian Cook's
reply is
reproduced
below.
Geoff
and Trevor,
Thanks
Geoff for
forwarding
Trevor's
email, its
much
appreciated.
I can
definitely
confirm that
the last two
Ivatt 2-6-2
tanks at
Stockport
Edgeley MPD at
the time
Trevor passed
were 41220 and
41233.
9B MPD
had at least
four examples
of the class
prior to them
all being
withdrawn
during 1967,
these were
41202, 41204,
41220 and
41233.
In
addition, to
the Ivatt
tanks a group
of 5 Standard
design 2MT
tanks arrived
during 1965,
it was
rumoured that
these were
going to
be sent
to the Isle of
Wight to
replace the
ageing tank
engines on the
island but
nothing
happened on
that front and
the
Standard tanks
were
eventually
withdrawn on
mass and
placed in
store at the
rear of the
depot i.e. the
same location
that Trevor
viewed the
Ivatt's.
The
numbers of the
Standard 2MT
tanks were
84013, 84017,
84019, 84025,
84026
I've
attached a
couple of
pictures of
the two
engines in
question
whilst they
were stored at
the rear of
Edgeley MPD.
The
pictures
aren't very
good as at the
time I only
had a Kodak
Instamatic
camera bought
from the
proceeds of a
paper round.
Hope
this helps.
Cheers
Ian.
Trevor's reply
is reproduced
below.
Dear Ian
I was delighted to receive
your detailed
response to my
query
- very
many thanks
indeed
and also
to Geoff for
passing
it on to
you.
The pictures are of
great interest
to me. 41233
appears to
have been
withdrawn
still with a
(very faded)
early BR lion
emblem on its
tanks.
The
internet often
gets a bad
press, but for
this sort of
thing it is
wonderful!
My friend (also called Ian)
and I had
travelled, up
from Truro, on
the evening of
15 April '67
on the 17.40
Penzance to
Manchester
Piccadilly
(1M78).
We were
due into
Stockport at
05.19 and
Piccadilly at
05.37. I would
guess it would
be still
pretty dark
then so we
must have seen
the Ivatts on
our
way back
to Crewe in
the afternoon,
after our
visit to
Edgeley shed.
I recall that the
line of
engines (which
I now know
included
41220/33) was
clearly
visible from
our train on
the
Crewe-Stockport
line although
I seem
to remember
they were some
way off.
Pity 41202/4 weren't
still there,
your notes
mention they
had been
removed,
presumably to
another site,
prior to being
towed away for
scrap.
By way of
return, I have
attached two
(very poor I'm
afraid ) Kodak
Brownie pictures
of our visit
to 9B.
I made
the mistake of
putting my
rolls of film
into our local
chemist for
processing and
these were the
only two steam
shots that
survived.
The
chemists never
admitted that
they had
messed up the
processing
and, sadly, I
never had the
opportunity to
return to
Edgeley.
