***************************************************************************************************** COMPILED AND EDITED BY GEOFF POOLE. *****************************************************************************************************
This page is a follow on to the original
NEWSPAGE and also a follow on to the LOCAL
RAILWAY NEWS PAGE (1).
Both of these archive pages can still be accessed from the index on the
anything newsworthy would be appreciated and can be sent through the
email link on the HOMEPAGE.
Clwyd West AM Darren
Millar has applauded improvements works at a busy train station after
seeing them first hand last week.
Colwyn Bay Train Station to see the newly refurbished facilities on
Friday and was hugely impressed by the works that have been carried out.
Arriva Trains Wales
have invested around £500,000 in the station following calls for
improvement which Darren made following a visit two years ago.
“It was great to
return to Colwyn Bay Train Station two years on and see the
improvements which have been made.
“For people arriving
in Colwyn Bay by train, the station is the first thing they see. First
impressions count and if we want to ensure that visitors return to the
area, it is essential that we have a welcoming gateway into the
and staff are now able to enjoy a newly refurbished ticket office,
improved disabled access, electronic mobile ticketing services, new
bathrooms and a much
improved waiting room. Also a new cafe will be coming to the
station in coming months.
“I would like to
thank Arriva Trains Wales for listening to my calls for improvements
and investing so heavily to improve the passenger experience.”
the Conservative Assembly Member for Aberconwy in the National Assembly
for Wales, seeks
assurance over the future of the Conwy Valley Branch line.
Janet Finch-Saunders AM
asked economy and transport secretary Ken Skates what measures are
being taken to ensure the lines long term
viability and how they aim to promote the line.
The issue has been brought
into focus following recent flooding and the temporary closure of the
According to the Pioneer
Newspaper Janet Finch-Saunders stated that the line is an important
link between the mountains and sea of North Wales.
As it runs from Llandudno to Dolwyddelan and onwards to Blaenau
Ffestiniog, it really is at the heart of our tourism industry but as
railway is situated on an
embankment right beside the River Conwy, it is almost inevitable that
it will flood at one point most years.
Closure causes problems
and demands extra expense in maintenance.
She stated that she has
written to the cabinet secretary for details of what plans the Welsh
Government has to promote this unique link.
Darren Millar has welcomed transport plans
announced by the
Welsh Government today which will see Abergele become a Transport
Hub and the rail link
between North Wales and Liverpool restored.
The Cabinet Secretary
for Economy and Transport’s ‘Transport Vision for North Wales’
Statement states “Our main focus continues to be on
creating integrated transport hubs at key employment sites across
north Wales and the wider Mersey Dee area.
It is about
better connectivity within, to and from and between the hubs.
In north Wales these hubs are centred in the Bangor, Abergele,
Rhyl, St Asaph, Wrexham, and Deeside areas.”
It later states “The
way we are procuring future Wales and Borders rail services will
improve the way that we can grow services across
North Wales, and my first priorities are for improved services
between North Wales and Liverpool via the Halton Curve as well as
faster south to north Wales services in the morning and evening.”
“I am absolutely
delighted that the Welsh Government want Abergele to be a transport
hub. It is great news for local residents, businesses and visitors to
With regards the
plans to restore rail links between North Wales and Liverpool via the
Halton Curve, Darren added:
“I have been
campaigning for years to get a direct service between North Wales and
Liverpool reinstated, so I am extremely
pleased that this has been identified as a priority for the new
“Liverpool is an
important commercial centre and improving transport links will provide
a huge boost to the North Wales economy in terms of
access to jobs and promoting tourism. Shifting passengers from
road to rail is also good for the environment.”
North Wales has not
enjoyed a direct rail link with Liverpool since the 1970s, when it was
incredibly popular for shoppers, commuters and tourists.
improved direct rail
links between Liverpool and North Wales, has welcomed this week’s
that work to reinstate the ‘Halton Curve’ is underway.
the Liverpool City Region, its airport, Cheshire and North Wales will
possible through the re-signalling and upgrading of 1.5 miles of
existing single direction track on the ‘Halton Curve'.
to be completed by May 2018, with
services due to operate between Liverpool and Chester from
December 2018 and plans for services to be extended into Wales in
has repeatedly called on the
Welsh Government to work with the UK Government to restore
direct rail services between Liverpool and North Wales, said:
direct service between North
Wales and Liverpool reinstated so I am
absolutely delighted that these works are underway.
provide a huge boost to the North Wales economy in terms of access to
jobs and promoting tourism.
Shifting passengers from road to rail is also good for the
annually and will
take more than 170,000 car journeys per year off the roads, helping
traffic and congestion on key routes such as the M56 and A55.
with Liverpool since the
1970s, when it was incredibly popular for shoppers, commuters and
forward to seeing the huge
benefits it will bring to North Wales.”
An email from Michael
Butterworth is reproduced below.
Michael asks if anyone could identify the two Class 68's he caught site
of at Bangor with the flasks on July 14th 2017.
I wonder if they are the
same pair that Mark Youdan snapped on July 10th 2017 (68 016 & 68
028) which is on
Charlie Hulme's website NORTH WALES COAST RAILWAY
notice board of July 17th 2017.
Just returned to GM base after some time helping friends in north
A friend gave me a lift out but I returned from Bangor with my faithful
Deefa (... dog) by train.
Dropped at Bangor by the same friend and, whilst struggling with
multiple bags, ticket machine and Deefa I caught a glimpse of a dual
Class 68 hauled Valley flasks passing on the rarely used through lines,
That was around !4:30, last Friday ( 14th July 2017 }
I was wondering if anybody you know out there can identify the two 68s
Haven't seen either a dual 68 flask train until Friday or any use of
the Bangor through lines, for their original purpose, for many many
Last recollection of the latter was a long time back. The midday
Irish Mail bursting through at full tilt behind a
Coronation Scot ... echoed
splendidly with the enclosing valley sides, between tunnels.
Somehow we never realise these things are ephemeral. Possibly
some steam excursions to Holyhead may provide some similar latter day
spectacle, as Bangor is rarely a stop for them.
To and fro this summer as I'm helping my friend making his long
neglected yacht seaworthy, as well as recovering 50% of a large
overgrown vegetable plot for an older friend overlooking Amlwch
Garden with a view!
Hope all is well with you.
Best wishes, Michael (mikb)
PS caught a fortuitous shot on return with my faithful hound, between
trains, at Chester ... note the station sign between the joined
(221109 Marco Polo /104 Sir John Franklin) ... well suited to a "Deefa
between trains" caption, as we changed from Arriva's Birmingham train
the Piccadilly service.
An email and photo from
Tony Crowther are published below showing Tony as a young boy with his
grandfather R.V.Jones "Bob Bychan" on
Blaenau Ffestiniog station.
Hello Geoff, Nice to see 6G website still
running for all these years, congratulations on an outstanding website.
I wish to forward the photo of
such memorable childhood memories of train rides up to Blaenau
Ffestiniog with my 6G train driver Grandfather R V Jones or as
better known at 6G throughout his Railway career , Bob Bychan.
This photo was taken by his
wife Barbara on Blaenau station in the summer of 1977.
The little fella is me who stands in front of Bob.
As you can see he was one of the
many drivers who wore his own cap for work.
I think Alan Roberts has said in the past he had photos of all
the drivers with their own caps but not one of Bychan.
Hope this brings a few memories of Bob Bychan to many who still
CALL FOR URGENT ACTION TO STRENGTHEN
OLD COLWYN SEA DEFENCES BY DARREN MILLAR.
Clwyd West Assembly Member Darren Millar fears lives could be lost
unless urgent action is taken to strengthen the flood defences
protecting the railway line and the A55 in Old Colwyn.
Darren has long been calling for improvements to sea defences along
the Old Colwyn promenade which suffered further damage in storms last
During a contribution in the Senedd today, Darren said the promenade
is now in a “critical condition”.
"There was further damage last week to the railings and some of the
walls protecting the railway embankment.
"It's just a matter of time before we see a serious incident like a
loss of life or even some of the railway embankment and A55 coming down
which would cause absolute havoc.
"It's essential that some work is done here - not just patch
repairs, but a thorough job to bring it up to modern standards so that
people can be protected from the sea."
The stretch of coastline consists of a narrow promenade, which is
maintained by Conwy County Borough Council, with the railway embankment
immediately behind, and the main A55 road beyond it.
A Welsh Water storm drain also runs under the promenade.
Darren, who last raised the matter in the Senedd in November, added:
“In spite of the Council's best efforts, Conwy County Borough
Council, Network Rail and Welsh Water haven't managed to get together
yet to agree a way forward.
"We need some leadership from the Welsh Government. We need the
Cabinet Secretary to take responsibility to bring these partners
together so we can realise the investment that these sea defences need."
Old Colwyn Councillor Cheryl Carlisle, who represents the area, is
also very concerned.
"I'm very worried for the safety of people and the
infrastructure. The wall supporting the railway line and the A55 has
been damaged. It will only take a little bit more in future and they'll
“Residents in the area are very concerned that the next storm could
lead to serious damage and people coming to harm.”
It is with great pleasure
I include a photo of a main contributor to this site, Alan Roberts, who
has recently celebrated 40 years service as a relief signaller.
I am grateful to his friend, Paul Wild, for the following photo and
I don't think many people
are aware of the dedication and skill that these signallers are blessed
with, nor do people realize that their work is so important
in keeping our network running smoothly but more importantly - safely.
I recently spent a short
time with Alan at Deganwy box when he showed my grandson Jack around
It was fascinating watching Alan at work and I was so impressed with
his dedication to the job.
Please find attached a
photograph of David Alan Roberts a relief signaller in North Wales who
has recently "celebrated" 40 years service, the picture shows Alan proudly
displaying his 40 year RMT membership badge and 40 year RMT membership
Hopefully you could include this
as a fitting tribute to a fine man and good friend on your 6g website.
The above photo showing
Crewe Works in 1953 which appeared on the JOHN POWELL
DATA PAGE prompted a query from Steve Berry who worked in the works
from 1967 - 1978.
Steve heard stories, while
working there, about the unknown dangers of asbestos dust and how the
workers were exposed to this danger on a daily basis and wondered if
the white substance
clearly shown in the photo was actually asbestos
I have printed Steve's
When I worked in the works I
was told how the men used to make snowballs from the asbestos and throw
it about, and they said that
you couldn't see up the Erecting shop for the dust.
They weren't aware of the dangers of
asbestos then. The photo looks to me to have been taken at the bottom
end of the Erecting shop just
after where the little traversa and of the classified bay as I know it
from my days of working in the works on the diesels.
I was working in this area of the Erecting shop in 1972 on Harold
Skelton's job (stripping pits) the other charge hand was Martin Heath.
I worked in the works from 1967
Regards Steve Berry.
This shocking story really
brings home the dangers that railway workers faced in the 1950's by
their exposure to the then unknown killer dust.
Steve has also sent in a
report published by the Cheshire Asbestos Victims Support Group which
makes frightening reading and which I have published below.
and Nantwich are reaching a peak in the cases of asbestos-related
borough has the highest mortality rate in Cheshire from mesothelioma -
type of cancer affecting the lungs
largely due to exposure to asbestos, readily
used in railway engineering sites such as Crewe Works since the 1940's
was banned in the UK during the 1980's.
disease has a latency period and can take up to sixty years to develop
explains the steady rise in mesothelioma
deaths in Crewe and Nantwich over the
last 20 years.
most recent statistics from the Health and Safety Executive reveal
been 103 deaths in the borough from the
industrial disease from 1985 to 2004,
the 16th highest in districts across the UK.
of Eastern Road, both
former employees at Crewe Works, revealed they had died from
working life, told how he and his
colleagues working nightshifts would sleep on pipes lagged with
ignorant at the time of the danger.
killer dust and the lack of protection offered.
it as snowballs," he
blue and brown asbestos on the floor.
insisted we wore them and we were never told of the dangers at the
Coroner for Cheshire Nicholas Rheinberg said he was entirely satisfied
exposure to asbestos led to the
development of mesothelioma in the two men.
spokesperson for Mesothelioma UK said: "It has been a national epidemic
for the last ten years and is about to
peak but this should tail off as it is
commensurate with asbestos use."
spokesperson for Bombardier Transport, owners of the former Crewe
"Since the dangers of asbestos have been known we have
levels of containment at Crewe and it is no longer a problem for our
further information about mesothelioma and making a compensation claim
Cheshire Victims Asbestos Support Group on 01928 576641.
Many thanks to Steve Berry
for bringing this detail to our attention.
MORE TRAINS ANNOUNCED BETWEEN
NORTH WALES AND MANCHESTER AIRPORT
16 May, 2016
Clwyd West AM Darren Millar, who has long been
calling for more trains services between North Wales and Manchester
Airport, has welcomed news that the number will triple from next week.
Arriva Trains Wales have said that from Monday the
number of trains running from North Wales to Manchester Airport will
triple, rising from 17 a week to 57.
An application to extend the existing agreement was
approved by the Office of Rail and Road.
“I have been advocating improved rail links to
Manchester Airport for a number of years so I am absolutely delighted
by this week’s news and I know rail users throughout North Wales will
join me in
welcoming this improved service to Manchester Airport.
“I would like to thank Arriva Trains for listening
and responding to my calls.”
He added: “I now hope that train operators
and Network Rail also look at developing direct rail links between
North Wales and Liverpool Airport.
to routes between North Wales and these two extremely busy
international transport hubs are critical in connecting businesses and
individuals to markets and job opportunities.”
Plans for increased North Wales rail service
to Manchester airport blocked.
31 March, 2016
Rail has refused to grant
permission to implement the proposals citing 'unmanageable pressure' on
train performance and impacts on other rail operators.
have been advocating improved rail links to Manchester Airport for a
number of years and was delighted before Christmas when Arriva Trains
that it wants to increase the number of direct trains between north
Wales and Manchester Airport from 17 to 57 weekly.
new trains from West Yorkshire and Lancashire running over the
yet-to-be-built Ordsall Curve - this is unacceptable.
have therefore written to Network Rail again demanding a full
explanation as to why rail links via a yet to be constructed rail link
prioritised over those which could be of benefit immediately to my
The Office of Rail and
Road (ORR) have issued a prohibition notice to West Coast Railway
Company (WCRC), who run most of the steam
heritage specials, preventing it running any heritage specials on the
main line due to it's management of safety record, following a number
of incidents over the past year.
This looks like reducing
the number of steam specials over the coming year unless WCRC can
convince the ORR that it will improve it's safety management record.
CLWYD WEST AM. DARREN MILLAR CALLS ON
THE WELSH GOVERNMENT TO IMPROVE COLWYN BAY RAILWAY
24 September, 2015
to the area, it is essential that we have an impressive gateway into
looks good, but also provides the facilities and services
that rail passengers need and deserve.”
Dave Wood sent in these
shots of the stricken A4 60009 "Union of South Africa" after failing at
Warrington on June 12th 2015, on her way to Carnforth
from Crewe, for a tour on Saturday 13th June 2015. She was stored in
Dallham until Wednesday June 17th 2015 when she will be moved by road
DIRECT RAIL LINKS TO LIVERPOOL AND
Clwyd West AM Darren
Millar has called for more action from the Welsh Government to secure
direct rail links to
Liverpool and Manchester airports to stimulate the North Wales
Speaking in the
Senedd this week, Darren, who has long been calling for improved
services for North Wales travellers, made fresh calls
for Ministers to give the people of North Wales better public transport
access to the international transport hubs.
routes between North Wales and airports in Liverpool and Manchester are
critical in connecting businesses and
individuals to markets and job opportunities.
improvements that I have long been calling for and rail travellers have
long been waiting for.
The Transport Minister has outlined her commitment to improving
the rail network here in North Wales, but we are
seeing little focus on links to international airports.
“The Welsh Government
have invested millions in improving transport links in south Wales –
it’s about time North Wales got some extra focus.”
An email from Anthony
Ashley, who is building the N gauge model of Conwy, Penmaenmawr and
Bangor, asking for details on the
original Conwy station is reproduced below.
Any detail can be sent by
the email link on the HOMEPAGE.
Dear Geoff, I have a question
which you or the other website readers may know.
The original Conwy station
which was pulled down in the 60s was brick. Do you know what colour?.
I presume it was red but not
seen any colour photos of it?
Regards Anthony .
A reply from Roger Carvell
along with a colour shot of the remains of Conwy station in 1985 are
Just found this pic in Larry Goddard's excellent colour album.
Below the two Class 20s, there is the remains of the station wall
with entrance/exit door with nice arch.
Dirty, purple redbrick! Grey stone arch.
I suspect the brick colour is the same as Mold as that station was
under the CHR as well.
December 7th 2014.
An email asking for information for a new book about Llandudno Junction
station by Geoffrey Barnes is published below.
If anyone can help please
email me through the address on the HOMEPAGE.
I am contemplating a book dealing with the 24 hours at Llandudno
Junction on Saturday 27 July 1957, when the railways were, arguably, at
their post-War height. Whilst I have
that summer's L.M. Passenger Timetable as my basis
- from which much may be deduced - there would nonetheless
still be much missing from the overall picture, and I am
therefore wondering how much detail could be filled in
by yourself and/or others associated with the 6G
website. Any such help would of course be acknowledged in any
For example: I can see from the timetable that first Down working to
call at LLJ (as I must abbreviate the station: it is not unamusing to
this is also the National Rail ticket code) was the 10.20pm
ex-Manchester Exchange, booked to arrive 12.51am, and depart 12.54am.
I am hence assuming it stood for these three minutes on Down Fast
Platform 3, and would also guess that it was booked for a
Black Five, running under express passenger head code. (?)
However, Saturday mornings only, it was held for no less
than 14 minutes, departing only at 1.05am, and
the reason for this appears to
be (as I infer from the timetable) to allow the passage of
the through-running 9.55pm ex-Birmingham New Street, which left Chester
14 minutes behind the Manchester, and would be hard on
its heels even by Colwyn Bay, since the Manchester, unlike
the Birmingham, had called at
Prestatyn, Rhyl, and Colwyn Bay before LLJ.
I therefore take it that the Manchester was brought
into Down Slow Platform 4 by No.1 Signal Box, in order to leave Down
Fast Platform 3 clear for the Birmingham.
Any confirmation available? I'm also going to guess the
Birmingham was likewise hauled by a Black Five. (?)
However, depending on the running of that night, it may well
be that the Manchester was put onto the Down Slow at Colwyn Bay,
allowing the Birmingham to
overtake it on the four miles of quadruple track between Colwyn
Bay and LLJ; just wondering if this ever happened?
I'm writing this from Cambridge Central Library somewhat on
the spur of the moment, having been browsing your 6G website.
As a result, I'm working from memory with regard to the exact
timings, so they may be slightly 'out'. However, as a taster for any
that might be able to be given, I suppose this first working of
the day might stand as good an example as any.
Incidentally, the usual 3-minute stay of the Manchester at
LLJ doesn't suggest any unloading/loading of mail, or unloading of
newspapers (?); in fact, a
10.20 departure from Manchester Exchange would have probably been
too early for even the first editions.
I hope I do not underestimate the work as would be involved
in any such book; indeed, I ruefully read Chris Evans' remarks on his
6G pages concerning
the planning and building of his LLJ model: I see the parallel,
and wonder if my proposal might transpire to become too great a task.
Regards, Geoffrey Barnes.
December 18th 2014.
A detailed answer by John
Hobbs, to the
above query, is shown below.
Colwyn Bay No1; it is marked "SL" & " X" which is
booked slow line for other trains to pass - on a Friday Night/Saturday
morning; if it
was so this late in the day then the practice would likely have
occurred in earlier years.
problems/questions; it was the practice for Holyhead traffic to
put on the Down Slow, at Colwyn Bay , on Saturdays for example to
avoid conflicting moves at Llandudno Junction.
the era/time of year and hence the loading; the last time a
"Patriot" appeared was on the 27th August 1965 ( unless you
can prove otherwise); it would
normally have been an EE Type 4 by then.
stopped at Rhyl were Slow Line from Muspratts Sidings (
Flint) because Rhyl No1 Box was shut at night.
After Muspratts Sidings closed the trains were put on the Slow at
Bagillt and eventually as the Slow line was
torn up; they were put on the Slow at Prestatyn ( there were
February 65, it started producing Jubilees, B1's and
Black 5's & even a K1, these were from North Eastern sheds e.g. Low
Moor & Wakefield etc.
These often ended up on 16.45 Holyhead to Manchester the
following evening or on the meat container trains from Holyhead
on the Chester to Shrewsbury line having been taken off the
"News" at Chester for some reason.
I could only travel on the 16.45 ex Holyhead train on a
Friday so no doubt it occurred on other days as well.
There is photographic evidence to support all this, the B1 s were
also used by 6G on occasions on Engineers trains at this time.
also conveyed "Mails" ( this was also one of the last steam
hauled trains in the area) well into 1968 - it probably lasted until
Patricroft closed to steam.
Prior to March 1967 a "Q" train also operated from
Shrewsbury to Chester to connect with the "Irish Mail"; in the
event of trains from
the South West running late.
THE GRESLEY SOCIETY TRUST TO ERECT
STATUE OF SIR NIGEL GRESLEY AT
LONDON’S KING’S CROSS STATION.
Permissions granted by Network Rail,
Camden Borough Council, and English Heritage.
London’s King’s Cross station is
to be graced by a statue of Sir Nigel Gresley, the renowned mechanical
engineer who designed locomotives, carriages and wagons for the London
& North Eastern Railway from 1923 until his death in April 1941.
His achievements include
the design of Mallard, the fastest steam locomotive in the world,
Flying Scotsman, and famous streamline high speed trains such as
Silver Jubilee in 1935 and Coronation in 1937.
He also invented vehicle
articulation, still used by railway and tramway engineers around the
world to this day. Sir Nigel was
knighted for his services to the LNER in 1936. The bronze statue will be a
standing figure about seven feet six inches tall, on the same scale as
the figure of Sir John Betjeman next door at St. Pancras station.
It will be sculpted by
Hazel Reeves SWA, FRSA, who also sculpted maquettes of the figure to
assist the Gresley Society Trust in obtaining permissions to erect the
statue. Hazel Reeves’ final maquette
will now be used by the Gresley Society Trust in raising money for the
The expected cost is
£95,000, which the Society is now seeking to raise by public
It is hoped that all who admire
the work of Sir Nigel will wish to be associated with the statue by
contributing to its cost.
The statue will be placed in the Western Concourse, beside the entrance
to the Ticket Office, by the wall to West Offices
where Sir Nigel and his principal assistants worked until the
outbreak of war.
Sir Nigel’s likeness will be standing in a familiar pose,
holding a copy of The Locomotive magazine.
He will be accompanied by a Mallard, symbolic of his most famous
Sir Nigel was known for rearing mallards at his pre-war home,
Salisbury Hall, near St Albans.
The accompanying wall plaque will carry a QR code, which
visitors to the statue may scan by smart phone, to direct them to the
It is planned to unveil the statue on 5 April 2016, the 75th
anniversary of the death of Sir Nigel.
David McIntosh, Chairman of the Gresley Society Trust, said:
“This is an inspiring project for the Society.
In the past we have erected memorials of various kinds in
Edinburgh, York and beside the line where Mallard achieved her
record speed, and now we are to honour Sir Nigel in London, where
he had his office for the last and
most productive eighteen years of his life.”
Hazel Reeves, sculptor, said: “I am greatly excited to be deeply
involved in this project.
Ever since I was asked to make proposals for the statue, and to
create maquettes for its evolution, I have been aware
of Sir Nigel Gresley and his considerable contribution to the
field of engineering.
Now that we have permission to erect a full-size statue at
King’s Cross, I can express my admiration for the man in a very real
RAIL INVESTMENT WILL BE A HUGE
BOOST TO NORTH WALES.
10.4 million pounds investment in the ‘Halton Curve’ and confirms
Network Rail’s detailed proposals will be published in the New Year,
Welsh Conservative Shadow
Minister for Transport Byron Davies AM, said:
Government has provided this investment".
Arriva Trains Wales have agreed to continue to provide an
early morning service from Abergele to Manchester after Clwyd West AM
Darren Millar wrote to the
company highlighting local concerns about the proposed axing of the
service. (see August 22nd 2014
Commuters were concerned that Arriva’s proposed new
timetables, which come into affect in December, include scrapping the
current 0644 service from Llandudno to
Manchester via Warrington, which stops at all stations including
In his letter to Arriva, Darren voiced his strong objection
to the changes and called for a better service to Manchester which
stops in Abergele.
Responding this week, a spokesman for Arriva Trains Wales
told Darren that the issue has been resolved by inserting an additional
stop into the 0514 hrs service from Holyhead to
Manchester Piccadilly (arriving 0818 hrs), which will depart Abergele
and Pensarn at 0620 hrs.
"The overall aim of the changes is to increase seating
capacity between North Wales and Manchester and Birmingham, an issue
which is regularly highlighted to
us by customers and stakeholders alike.
To make this increase in capacity we have procured another
locomotive-hauled train comprising four cars which, in turn, allows us
to strengthen other hard-pressed
services shown on the attachment."
"This is fantastic news and I would
like to thank Arriva Trains Wales for listening to the concerns of
local commuters and adapting their proposed timetable accordingly.
"The early morning service provides a good opportunity for
commuters and business travellers to the city from the Abergele area
and its loss would have been felt deeply.
Employment opportunities are not always available locally so it is
vital that we give travellers from North Wales the rail service they
An article taken from The
Daily Post in July 2014 is reproduced below.
New North Wales to Manchester train
services launched in £1.2m deal.
Department for Transport and Arriva Trains Wales.
The new services will mean “at least 2,450 extra seats across the
morning and evening peaks every week”.
Under the plans announced by Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin
today, the train operator will run an
additional locomotive and four carriages.
The new services, backed by the Welsh Government, are intended to help
passengers and local businesses on the popular routes between
Llandudno and Holyhead to Manchester and Birmingham.
The routes include Manchester Piccadilly to Holyhead; Holyhead to
Manchester Piccadilly; and Manchester Piccadilly to Llandudno.
There will also be a Chester to Manchester Piccadilly service.
Transport Secretary Mr McLoughlin said: “This is good news for
passengers travelling between England and Wales. I know how popular
these services are, so it’s important to get extra carriages and seats
on the network.
“It will mean better connections for thousands of passengers, and is
further proof our long term economic plan is on track, making a
real difference to hard-working people.”
Network Rail plans to spend £38bn over the next five years.
According to the Department for Transport: “The deal has been made
possible through money paid to the department by
Deutsche Bahn, following the company’s acquisition of Arriva Plc. Under
the current rail industry
framework train companies are required to pay a Change of Control Fee
when changes to the operator are made.”
Ian Bullock, Managing Director of Arriva Trains Wales, said: “We would
like to thank both the Department for Transport
and the Welsh Government for supporting the provision of extra capacity
on some of our busiest routes.
Improved service performance levels and the increased popularity of
sustainable transport has led to more than 75% growth in
passenger numbers using our Manchester and Birmingham services since
our Wales and Borders franchise began in late 2003.
“This extra capacity will help us better meet the demand along these
key routes and hopefully encourage even more passengers to use the rail
Clwyd West AM Darren Millar has written to Arriva
Trains Wales after learning that its proposed new timetable does not
early morning service from Abergele to Manchester.
The proposals show that from December, the
current 0644 service from Llandudno to Manchester via Warrington, which
all stations including Abergele, is to be axed,
North Wales commuters needing to be in Manchester
or Warrington by 9am for work will have to leave Colwyn Bay half an
hour earlier at 0613, but this
service will not be stopping at Abergele.
Commuters have also raised concerns that the
current 0552 direct Manchester service out of Colwyn Bay is also under
“I am very concerned to hear of these
proposed changes as many commuters depend on the early morning service
from Abergele to get them to work before 9am and it is
shameful that their needs have not been taken into consideration
in drawing up the new timetable.
“I have therefore written to Arriva Trains
Wales highlighting the concerns raised with me and calling for a better
service to Manchester which stops in Abergele.#
We must ensure that North Wales travellers have the rail service
DIRECT RAIL LINK BETWEEN NORTH
WALES AND LIVERPOOL TO BE RE-ESTABLISHED.
3 July, 2014
Clwyd West AM Darren Millar, who has been
campaigning for years for a direct rail link between North Wales and
Liverpool, has expressed his delight at a UK Government
announcement of £10M plus to pave the way for a service to be
The Chancellor has announced that as part of a
package of measures to support Liverpool’s science and transport
infrastructure, £10.4 million will be provided to upgrade the
Halton Curve rail line to improve connectivity between Liverpool,
Cheshire, Warrington and North Wales.
Darren, who over the years has repeatedly called
on the Welsh Government to work with the UK Government to restore
direct rail services
between Liverpool and North Wales, said:
"I have been campaigning for years to get a
direct service between North Wales and Liverpool reinstated, so I am
absolutely delighted by today’s announcement.
"Liverpool is an important commercial centre and
improving transport links will provide a huge boost to the North Wales
economy in terms of access
to jobs and promoting tourism. Shifting passengers from road to rail is
also good for the environment.
"North Wales has not enjoyed a direct rail link
with Liverpool since the 1970s, when it was incredibly popular for
shoppers, commuters and tourists.
“This is a very exciting development
and I look forward to seeing the huge benefits it will bring to North
An email from Anthony
Ashley, who is building the "N" gauge model layout of Bangor
Penmaenmawr and Conwy, is reproduced below with an appeal
for any information regarding blood and custard coaches in 1960.
Any information can be
sent to the website by the email link on the HOMEPAGE.
been trying to determine if there were any blood and custard coaches
still around in 1960 and perhaps a ratio to Maroon.
checked all photos on the 6G web site and there seem to be very few.
RCTS undertook the following survey on Saturday 4th August 1962 and a
team of Observers, led by Mr C.W.F.Smith,
spread out along the North Wales coast to undertake observations which
are reflected in the survey.
survey includes a commentary on what was seen and why things happened
during the day.
Credit for the Copyright is to the RCTS.
The Railway Correspondence and Travel Society - Merseyside, Chester and
North Wales Branch holds meetings at :-
Town Crier, City Road, Chester, CH1 3AE at 19.30 on advertised dates.
Alan Roberts tells me that
he noticed a sad announcement in the Daily Post today.
Think he started back at Rhyl shed and for many years was based
in Chester before transferring to Llandudno Junction.
Some kind words and memories of Vic by Ex-6G driver Barry W Taylor are
Just read of the sad news of ex Junction driver
I knew Vic well from when I started as a trainman at Llandudno
Junction, he was also my Minder Driver
when I was doing my driver training.
He had lots of sayings some I cannot print but one was when you
approached a signal at danger Vic would say
"this side of the signal is yours the other side belongs to the
signalman" has always stuck in my mind.
Another he told me was when we where on our way to Amlwch with the
tanks early one morning (03:45) he said "this is the worst job in
the world" and when we returned to the Junction at about !0:30 he said
"this is the best job in the world".
He was a proper railwayman and will be missed I'm sure by lots of people
Barry W Taylor.
An email from David
Thomas (nephew of Vic Thomas) is reproduced below.
I have just read the kind words expressed by
former colleagues concerning the sad passing of my late Uncle, Vic
Thomas, ex Llandudno Junction driver.
Vic was certainly a character and I have fond
memories of him as a young lad when on occasions I would meet him at
(former Prestatyn-Meliden-Dyserth branch line) when he used to
collect the lime wagons from the quarry-empty wagons were shunted
across a bridge as it was too weak to handle the steam engine
itself and gravity did the rest! I had many a ride on the engine-what a
Years later after he retired Vic was often asked
to drive heritage engines along the North Wales Coast and I recall once
he rang me and asked me
to bring my own young son to Llandudno Junction as he was
bringing in a "special" engine;
I don't recall which one but on arrival he proceeded to lift my
son onto the foot-plate with him.
With this, some very official
type/ transport inspector who was also on the foot-plate told Vic that
children were not allowed on the engine and it was
against regulations; Vic took exception to this and responded by
climbing off the engine with my son in his arms and duly told the poor
that given his "attitude" he'd best drive the ruddy engine to
I can still see that man's look of utter horror as Vic strode off
down the platform; needless to say he did eventually go back to the
engine, as did my son! Happy Days.
Vic was indeed based at Chester for many years
and at Llan. Junction and he retired
to live in Rhuddlan.
He is survived by his wife
Betty and his daughter Sian and sons Gwyn and Gareth.
His funeral took place at Colwyn Bay Crematorium
last Monday 24th Feb 2014 and it was lovely to see many former Llan.
Junction and Chester railwaymen
paying their respects to him.
If anyone has any photos of Vic at work I will
be grateful for a copy as Vic wasn't the best with a camera!
Thank you for mentioning him in your news; it
means a lot to the family.
Clwyd West AM Darren Millar, who has been campaigning for
years to get a direct rail service between
North Wales and Liverpool reinstated, is disappointed that the
Transport Minister made no reference to this when she provided an
Transport Policy in the Assembly Chamber this week.
North Wales has not enjoyed a direct rail link with
Liverpool since the 1970s, when it was incredibly popular for
shoppers, commuters and tourists.
Darren has long been calling for the service to be
re-established and was hoping the Transport Minister would provide an
developments in this area in her Statement.
Addressing the Minister in the Senedd, Darren said:
"One thing that you did not mention, or provide an update
on, was the potential for a direct rail link to Liverpool.
As you know, Liverpool is an extremely important commercial
centre for the people of north Wales, and
the north Wales tourism industry relies significantly on people
visiting from Liverpool and the wider Merseyside area.
So, I wonder what discussions you and your officials may have
been having with the Department for Transport in the UK regarding the
re-establishment of that direct link along the Halton curve."
The Minister responded by indicating that she would ask the
Ministerial Task force on North Wales Transport, which was established
make the case for electrification of the North Wales rail line,
to add the issue to their agenda.
"As a large commercial centre with strong links to North
Wales, there is no doubt that improving the transport infrastructure
Liverpool and North Wales would provide a much needed boost to
Whilst I welcome the fact that the Minister will now
ensure that this issue is given serious consideration, this should not
been an afterthought, especially given that the North East Wales
Integrated Transport Task Force Report recognised this and
recommended last summer that the line should be reinstated.
"I have been campaigning for years for the reinstatement of
this service and I will continue pressing the
Welsh Government to take this issue forward."
An email from Peter Wolfe
is reproduced below.
Peter asks for details about the stored engines at 6G in the late 50's
/ early 60's.
A list from 1963 appears on the 6G ALLOCATED
ENGINES page which may be of help.
Many thanks for the wonderful website.
It really brings back memories of happy
holidays in the area where more time was spent at Rhyl station or on
top of the chalets at Penmaenmawr.
Watching trains rather than on the beach.
I wonder if you could help me.
I would like to find the numbers of the engines that were on the
scrap line at 6G in the late 1950s or early 1960s.
I realise that the engines changed,
but at the time I am thinking of the line contained a couple of
LMS 2P 4-4-0s and a LMS Compound as well as other engines.
Kind Regards. P. Wolfe
Another email from Peter
is reproduced below.
Hi Geoff, Many thanks for your E-mail.
It was the great photos that reminded me of seeing
those engines on the 6G stored line. If memory serves I saw them from
an early Derby DMU
from Blaenau Ffestiniog on a rail cruise which part of the tour
was on a Crosville coach, as I guess some of the lines had closed by
I was also fortunate to have travelled on one
of The North Wales Land cruise specials that was all steam, travelling
from Rhyl through
Afonwen, Barmouth, Corwen and Denbigh.
An email from Trevor A
Tremethick is reproduced below.
of locomotives in the scrap lines at Stockport Edgeley Shed (9B)
March to May 1967.
I went to Edgeley with a friend on 16 April 1967 and, as we
passed the scrap lines (which I think were south of the shed), we
a line of engines including Ivatt 2-6-2 tanks for which we did
not record numbers.
Perhaps they were just too far away. For many years I have
wondered – with only a hazy memory of the line of
locos – how many Ivatts were in the line-up and which ones they
were. I think Mr Cook’s record has answered that
question in that the two locos left were 41220 and 41233.
I would be very interested should he have any more information on
the scrap Ivatts (e.g. where the ones removed for transit to Wards at
Killamarsh were held).
We went on to visit Crewe South (5B) and Crewe Works.
I think we totalled some 100 steam spotted that day, although
most were simmering on shed and some, of course, withdrawn.
Ian Cook's reply is
be sent to the Isle of Wight to replace the ageing tank engines
the island but nothing happened on that front and
the Standard tanks were eventually withdrawn on mass and placed
in store at the rear of the depot i.e. the same location that Trevor
viewed the Ivatt's.
The pictures aren't very good as at the time I only had a Kodak
Instamatic camera bought from the proceeds of a paper round.
I was delighted to
receive your detailed response to my query - very many thanks
indeed and also to Geoff for passing it on to you.
The pictures are of
great interest to me. 41233 appears to have been withdrawn still with a
(very faded) early BR lion emblem on its tanks.
The internet often gets a bad press, but for this sort of thing
it is wonderful!
My friend (also
called Ian) and I had travelled, up from Truro, on the evening of 15
April '67 on the 17.40 Penzance to Manchester Piccadilly (1M78).
We were due into Stockport at 05.19 and Piccadilly at 05.37. I
would guess it would be still pretty dark then so we must have seen the
Ivatts on our
way back to Crewe in the afternoon, after our visit to Edgeley
I recall that the
line of engines (which I now know included 41220/33) was clearly
visible from our train on the Crewe-Stockport line although
I seem to remember they were some way off.
weren't still there, your notes mention they had been removed,
presumably to another site, prior to being towed away for scrap.
By way of return, I have attached two (very poor I'm afraid ) Kodak
Brownie pictures of our visit to 9B.
I made the mistake of putting my rolls of film into our local
chemist for processing and these were the only two steam shots that
The chemists never admitted that they had messed up the
processing and, sadly, I never had the opportunity to return to Edgeley.
* Interestingly, one of the
Stanier class fives I recorded at 9B on the 16th was 44722 which,
research, I found to be a Perth engine, listed as being withdrawn
the same month.
I have never found any other reference to that
loco being on Edgeley and I have to admit the possibility that I wrote
down an incorrect number.
Unless, of course, she came south for the football, as
England had been playing Scotland at Wembley the day before!
I wrote a number of articles
for 'Steam Days' magazine back in 2003-5 and my trip to Stockport and
Crewe would have been article number four.
Sadly they decided against it and returned my manuscript
unpublished. However, It remains a record of my journey and I read it
from time to time.
Nearly 50 years afterwards - thanks to you
- I can now update it!
my appreciation to you, and to Geoff.
Kind regards, Trevor.
: I suspect it was 44782, which had
been in store from mid Dec 1966 and was definitely there when
Trevor visited the depot in April 1967.
3442 (BR number
61994) "The Great Marquess" on shed at 9B Stockport Edgeley on April
view of 9B Stockport Edgeley on April 16th 1967.
An email from Brian
Roberts asking for details of Chris Evans' records from 1961 is
You may remember I contacted you quite a few years ago now seeking
information about workings along
the North Wales Coast during the early 1960's.
have not visited your fascinating site much of late but I did so
yesterday and discovered a similar request from Mike Williams made in
June this year together with a response from Chris Evans which
revealed, to my astonishment, he holds information
dating from July and August 1961, precisely the period I am most
Would it be possible to ask Mr Evans on my behalf whether he would be
prepared to let me have copies of locomotive numbers and
where available the associated trains they worked for any dates at all
in July and August 1961 please?
I look forward to hearing from you again.
I contacted Brian to let
him know that the details he refers to above are already published on
Brian replied and was
astonished that he has found these details after so many years.
No, I hadn't seen all the information you refer to. From my point of
view it's a brilliant 'find'! I've alerted my friend, Alan Turton, to
the information's availability and asked for his comments.
He was with me at Chester on 29/07/61 and because it was his first ever
visit to the station he remembers more about what we saw than I do.
He also has a list of locomotive numbers he saw in the middle of 1961
to refer to.
This, I hope, will result in consistencies.
If anyone can help please
send details through the email link on the HOMEPAGE.
hope you don't mind me asking about this which might be slightly off
topic but I have really enjoyed the wealth
of information on Llandudno Junction website.
One of these was a midi numbered 44073 that was a long time resident of
Mold Junction and as such I think could have been a
visitor to Llandudno Junction.
My collection is primarily pictures in my collection of books and
magazines plus 'pictures of picture's from the
National Railway Museum and numerous other sources.
The other photos that Alan needs to
complete his collection are as follows:
LMS 44120 of
Aston, LMS 47370 of
Stoke, LMS 47411 of Edge
Hill, LMS 47489 also of Edge Hill, 47568
of Farnley Junction LMS 47573 of
Wakefield, LMS 47585 of Agecroft, LMS 47605 of
Barrow, LNER 64793 of Ipswich, WD 90118 of
Colwick WD 90286 of
Mexborough, WD 90391 of
September 23rd 2013.
An email from Rod Armitage
with details regarding the above is reproduced below.
please pass this on to Alan Eastham, because I too am trying to do a
similar project to him using a 1961 Combined.
I am down to wanting 67 loco's out of the 13,426 listed.
I have seen
a photo of 90391, I think in Scenes from the past 29 Woodhead.
An email from Ian Cook of
Manchester is reproduced below.
Ian has pointed out
that an entry on the North Wales Coast Steam page showing A3 no. 60103
at Llandudno station with a special on the 4th June 1966 was captioned
incorrectly as June 6th 1966.
Many thanks Ian for the
Ian has agreed to allow us
to publish the extensive log he has drawn up from his spotting days of
1964 - 68, which includes
many local entries, on the 6G website.
A mammoth five page series
is now published showing this data which will, I'm sure, create
much interest as well as
stirring up many memories for readers who probably like me didn't keep
hold of their notes from those exciting days.
Thank heaven some
enthusiasts, like Ian Cook, had the foresight to realize that this data
would have great value in the years to come.
The Ian Cook data pages are now
published HERE along with a number of photos
in his email below.
I found your site recently, whilst doing some research whilst
converting my old spotting notes into an electronic form.
i.e. the picture of 70009 at the Junction on 30th July 1966.
North Wales Coast Steam page (November 12th 2008).
a rail tour. Hope this helps.
have two pictures of it at Llandudno station. The rail tour was
operated by The Gainsborough Model Railway Society.
have detailed my log of that day below.
Railway Society Railtour from Lincoln Central to Llandudno
Passenger service paired
with D7556, almost certainly from the Midlands
An email from Patricia
Atherton. with a request for
information on a Derek Evans who she hasn't seen since 1967 and who she
is possibly the Derek Evans who has appeared in photos on the 6G
website and who worked signal boxes in our area.
We have been
looking at your 6G website which we found very interesting.
We found it whilst
trying to find an old Army Pal of my husband's called Derek Evans. We
knew him in the 1960's in Germany and later in
Singapore in 16 LAD Regt RA.
I have seen a
Derek Evans, 'an experienced signalman' in one of the photos and he
does seem to resemble Derek somewhat.
We have not
seen him though since 1967. He came , I
think, originally, from a place near Aberfan and we were with him the
day the news
of the disaster broke.
I should be very
grateful if it does turn out to be the Derek we knew if you could
please tell him that Phil Atherton is looking for him and if so if
you could kindly send him my email.
Many thanks for
I don’t have any contact details
for the signalman Derek Evans but I will publish your request on the
NEWSPAGE and send details to a few contacts who may be able to help.
Could you pinpoint exactly where
the photo of Derek Evans is on the website and also would it be OK for
me to publish the photo of Derek that you sent to me?
As soon as you let me know I will
get the details published and if there is a response I will be in touch.
Thank you so much for getting back
to me Geoff.
You are quite welcome to put the photo on the website or indeed any
other details I have provided that you think may be of help.
I found an address and Phone
number in Bangor for a Derek Evans on 192.com and have tried the number
but had no reply.
He worked in the Bangor Box so I thought this may be the same
I will scan the item and photo
which is on the archive NEWSPAGE dated July 25th 2010.
Derek Evans is No. 6 in the photo.
its posted by a man called Andy Parry who worked in the next Box
to him daily and knew him well.
We are so hoping that it will be the same Derek.
There is quite a good likeness, we think.
Below is a link to
the photo Patricia mentions above which is on the archive NEWSPAGE posted
July 25th 2010.
Below is a photo of the
Derek Evans known to Patricia taken in 1967 at Kuching airport in July
If anybody can help with the ID please email the site.
June 22nd 2013.
An email from Ken Brett and a reply from John Powell , Chris Evans and
Any more detail on
the colours would be appreciated.
As I told Ken there
are photos of the Welsh dragon displaying the headboard but most of the
ones I have seen are in black and white
so if anybody has any colour shots of the train and headboard it could
solve the puzzle otherwise we can only rely on our memories.
It takes me back to when I holidayed at the North Wales Holiday Camp in
Abergele as a small boy in the mid 50s.
I remember crossing the main line to get to the beach!! In those days
there was no footbridge and if memory serves me right
there were four lines to cross, dodging The Welsh Dragon Ivatts and
I also remember the excursions to Llanberis and the Derby Lightweight
from Llandudno to Betws-y-Coed.
I am currently putting together a set to represent the Welsh
Dragon and have used your photos to this end.
I guess that the dragon image was red but have no idea about the rest.
Something tells me that whole headboard was red as I recall the train
as the Red Dragon Express in my mind.
John Powell writes:
Regarding Ken Brett's email on the
NEWSPAGE on June 22nd 2013.
difficult on my memory this one, as I don't seem to have a colour photo
of the Welsh dragon.
seems to tell me that the board was black, the dragon was red ( Of
Course ) and the letters were in white.
Chris Evans writes:
Reading Ken Brett's email of 22nd June on your Newspage
reminded me that I have a
miniature 'Welsh Dragon' headboard which, although not currently in
use, I once fitted to a
DMU for a photograph (see below).
I have enclosed it as it should help Ken with the colours, which
I believe are accurate.
David Hughes writes:
I hope the enclosed photos will help Ken Brett, 22nd June 2013 , in his
for the colours of The Welsh Dragon headboard.
I was at the NRM on the 9th July for the Great Gathering and found this
headboard (see below) hanging on the wall, notice the yellow/gold
Second photo was taken on the Llangollen Railway on 21st April and
shows lettering in white.
In the August 1995 copy of Steam World there is a colour photo of 41224
on Rhyl shed complete with headboard. Photo was taken on 21-8-1954 and
shows the lettering in white.
An email from
Michael Williams and a response from Chris Evans are reproduced below.
I wonder if you would be kind enough to pass on a query I have
regarding what trains would be running along the The North Wales coast
during August 1961 please.
I have fond memories of family holidays in Colwyn Bay during the 1960s
and am a great admirer of Chris' Llandudno Junction layout
and would like to construct one of my own.
of trains that actually ran (or that he runs on his layout) that
covered the August period when my family normally went to Colwyn Bay.
numbers, reporting numbers, etc that he could provide would be
gratefully received. If
Chris actually had details of all the trains he runs for the summer of
1961, that would be even better.
I am a great
fan of the 6g website and always look for the latest information and
A reply from Chris Evans is shown
In response to Mike's request, yes I have the complete working
timetables for passenger and freight trains
for summer 1961 and have used these to create my Llandudno Junction
Although the timetables themselves are too bulky to copy I can
certainly supply Mike with
a copy of my station working, which gives details of all trains, on all
days of the week, including
identification numbers and the power class of locomotive I have either
determined or guessed worked them.
Llandudno in later July/early August 1961 (much of this info. came from
the Llandudno Engine Arrangers book
via John Kirwood) and, as I was on holiday in North Wales at this time
I have some records of personal observations.
send him all the relevant information - and wish him luck with his
Below is Mike's
reply to Chris Evans.
for your kind offer of assistance.
I have been a
great admirer of your layout for a while now and was keen to construct
one of my own.
This too would be based on workings during the summer of 1961
(the first year I went on holiday to Colwyn Bay) and
would consist of two main sections.
The first being a representation of the North Wales Coast line at
Colwyn Bay and the second a representation
of Llandudno Junction shed as it might have looked if plans to
construct the first stages of a new Coast Road had actually
begun in 1957 - the year I believe the shed itself was redeveloped (or
at least repaired).
As I said in
my initial email to Geoff, I have have very fond memories of family
holidays in Colwyn Bay during
the 1960s, and felt that constructing a layout like this would
help me to recapture those wonderful days.
Any help you
can give me regarding train details (engine numbers etc.) would be
gratefully received Chris - indeed any
information at all would be absolutely fantastic.
I was really
interested to hear that you had used the Llandudno Engine Arrangers
book and your own observations
as your main sources for the Saturday trains for late July/ early
you or John Kirwood have any plans to publish these at some point? I am
sure a lot of people would be interested.
thanks again Chris, and I look forward to hearing from you soon.
The book Mike refers to above, and Chris
below, is the engine men's arrangement book relating to Llandudno.
The book was drawn up by two drivers from
6G, Tommy A. Hughes and Meirig Roberts.
It details engine numbers, times, turns,
and destinations of all engines in and out of Llandudno
during the 1960's.
The book's custodian is now ex- 6G stalwart
I have tried on numerous occasions to make
John Kirwood aware that the 6G website would be a
perfect platform to display the unique data this book holds which would
be so interesting and helpful to
all ex - 6G workers, 6G website visitors, railway enthusiasts and
railway modellers worldwide.
I have to report that to date I have not
had a response from John Kirwood to this request.
My open request to John Kirwood still
stands and if he wishes to contact me I will pick up the book, scan it
and return it safely to his possession.
You are absolutely right when you mention capturing memories of
those wonderful days back in the
60s when, like yourself, I used to go to North Wales for summer
In my case I stayed at Betws-Y-Coed but saw quite a lot of the
main line along the coast.
Often whilst the rest of the family were on the beach I would
stand all day by the line side, fascinated by
the procession of steam passing by.
Once I had the opportunity to try to re-create something of that
era I decided there would be no half measures and
embarked on my project to build Llandudno Junction and Llandudno as it
was in 1961.
what the layout is all about.
I am not a 'rivet counter' and am not too concerned about the
accuracy of every detail, as long as
the result looks and feels about right.
What I did want to do was to run trains as nearly as possible to
the summer 1961 timetable, with the correct
motive power but hauling roughly half-length trains in order to fit the
In a limited space trains always appear longer than they really
are, anyway, so it doesn't bother me that
most of mine are formed of no more than seven coaches; freight trains
are similarly only about half-length.
With any model in a limited space but covering a large area there
has to be compromise and obviously the
stations, sheds and other buildings are necessarily also much
shorter than the prototypes, but the
overall effect I think is quite satisfactory.
the original working timetables, carriage workings and recorded
allocations and observations of
locomotives and DMU's.
Whilst I have had to make some assumptions (and am continually
updating the running plan as more
detail comes to light) I am happy that I am probably operating to about
As you will know, Saturdays were by far the busiest days and,
although coaching stock is not accurately
diagrammed (otherwise I would need many hundreds more coaches
than the hundreds I already have!) locomotives and
DMU's are and, accordingly, I have amassed over 160 of the former
and 15 of the latter.
I didn't acquire these all in one go, however, and so have
gradually changed the diagrams to allow more
accurate working as and when more motive power has become
everything necessary to operate on all days of the week.
To give you an idea of what that includes I have attached a table
of the contents of the books involved.
What I really need to know, in order to be able to help you
further, is how closely you intend to run to the
original timetable, or whether perhaps you just want to run a
representative selection of trains.
I can then advise you on how much motive power and stock you will need,
as well as providing you with as much appropriate detail as I have.
don't have access to the Llandudno Engine Arrangers book and don't know
its keeper, John Kirwood. A
limited amount of information from it has appeared in 'The Men of 7A
and 6G Loco shed' by Derek
Williams, and Geoff Poole has very kindly been trying to help by
persuading John Kirwood to share its valuable information,
ABOVE BY GEOFF POOLE REGARDING THE LLANDUDNO ENGINE ARRANGERS
BOOK - HELD BY JOHN KIRWOOD)
I have attached the information I do have, which also includes
some from other sources as well as my own
observations of the time, and at least gives an insight of the
variety of motive power that worked along the coast in those days.
You will notice, incidentally, that there was a great deal of
allocation, and even loco type, with many of the trains from one
weekend to the next - a reflection of just how
difficult it was to provide motive power at such busy times but
also an opportunity for quite a lot of modeller's licence!
I'm sure you will have great fun with it and that it will give you much
An email from Gareth
Flemington is reproduced below.
If anyone can help please email the site through the link on the
I am look for a decent photo or print of the Flying Welshman which I
would like to frame.
In the 50's &
60's I use to travel on this train from Euston to Bangor as my mother
was from Bethesda and we used to visit family there.
I always remember
the dining car attendant coming along and inviting passengers for
lunch or dinner, I was always upset that we never went
as mother would always pack sandwiches.
John Powell writes :
Hi Geoff, Regarding the "Flying Welshman" photos
for Gareth (see above).
If he goes to the " Main Line "
Prestatyn, and  at Conwy Castle, (6128). I'm sure they will be of
interest to him.
Coincidently, this train ran non - stop from
Chester to Bangor, with a connection there for Pwllheli.
The new build
Patriot Class 45551 " The Unknown Warrior" took major steps forward
this month by using a recently available
process for making cylinder patterns out of polystyrene instead of the
more expensive traditional wood.
The use of this
method has saved the project in the region of £29000.
However because they
melt after being used, they can only be used once unlike the more
expensive wooden patterns but as Patriot cylinders
aren't standard to any other locomotive, there's no point in using wood.
The poly pattern is made
from 9 separate layers.
They are using techniques, to make patterns, that have not
commonly been used in the steam railway world before.
This has attracted
attention from railway projects in Melbourne, Australia!
The four photos below show the patterns.
Polystyrene pattern for
outside cylinders £2000 each & middle one £2280
Casting for outside ones £4750 each and middle one £5170
£30000 approx for machining and finishing.
THANKS TO JOHN BARROWDALE AND ANDREW
LAWS FOR THE ABOVE DETAILS AND FOLLOWING PHOTOS.
The work continues with
the smokebox for 45551 now assembled with front tube plate, door and
door surround all fitted.
Derek Williams is
providing Chris Evans with valuable records of his memories of 6G
engine visitors during 1961
which will help Chris use authentic engines on his model railway
Chris has sent the email below where he mentions Derek's notes along
with his own recollections of a visit to 6G during the
"Glorious Years" which will bring back memories to many readers.
very much look forward to seeing Derek's loco jottings from 1961 when
he brings them - it's very
kind of you both to go to the trouble. Every little piece of info
of this sort helps to put the jig-saw together
so that I can recreate the most accurate representation I can.
The model railway company Bachmann are going to produce a Stanier 5MT
2-6-0 soon which will help.
Remarkably, considering the variety of locos that ran along the coast
in 1961, that only really leaves one
class regularly seen that is not mass-produced: the Stanier 3MT 2-6-2
tanks, which is a shame as 6G had quite
a number of them, as I'm sure you know.
About half a dozen were still in service, mainly confined to empty
stock workings, pilot duties and locals between
Llandudno and the Junction, whilst a further four were stored on the
shed back road.
As I'm sure you will know, this was the original Blaenau branch when
Llandudno Junction station was sited
further west, near the road crossing.
I do have a couple of kit-built examples so at least they are
Apart from that, all that's missing as a ready-to-run product are the
Caprotti versions of the Stanier Black 5s, although
again I have conversions, and similarly the Caprotti Standard 5s -
73126-73135 being allocated to Patricroft and being
regular visitors on Manchester trains.
in 1961, no doubt getting filthy dirty in the process!
There was also a 'Jinty' in store, 47394, an old 2P 4-4-0, 40635, and
three Fowler 3MT tanks, 40008, 40048 and 40058, all
of which had been allocated to 6G but were surplus to requirements.
I have them specially underlined with a 'C' for 'cabbed' in my ABC
spotter's book and have since found a number of
photos of them in various books and magazines.
Most of them remained there for quite a few years, being 'out of the
way' whilst many hundreds of other locos
were being sent to the scrap yards at the time.
The jottings mentioned above,
showing the engines Derek Williams remembers on shed in January 1961,
are shown below.
I wonder if any more memories of
engines noted on 6G are still in existence.
If anybody has any details similar to
the above they would be valuable records of the shed that we could
the website as I'm certain they would be of great interest and help to
readers and railway modellers alike.
An email from Luke
Pettitt is reproduced below asking for any photographs of Port Dinorwic
Any details can be sent through the email address on the HOMEPAGE.
I currently live in what was Port
Dinorwic Station and I'm trying to find as many pictures as I can.
I have looked at your excellent site
and I note that you have a picture of BR 80094 outside my front
(North Wales stations page) I'd love to purchase a copy of of it
and I think the copyright might belong to John Powell.
Would it possible to have contact
details for him or do you know who owns the copyright if not him?
Also if you know of anyone else who
might have pictures I'd be extremely grateful.
An email query from
Chris Evans is reproduced below.
I hope you are well.
I have come across a working that has me rather flummoxed and wonder
whether any of your contacts
may be able to help.
The services in question were summer Sunday afternoon excursion trains
that ran from Rhyl (steam hauled) and Llandudno (dmu) to
Menai Bridge and LlanfairP.G., certainly in 1961 and possibly other
Lengthy stops were made in one direction
at both these places to allow time to explore and the steam train was
as having refreshment facilities from and to Llandudno Junction (which
is curious in itself - why not from/to Rhyl?)
The (summer 1961) advert for this service appears in Michael Jones'
'Steam on the North Wales Coast' book, which I
expect you probably have a copy of.
The really odd thing is that I have never
seen a photo of this train and it does not appear in the 1961 working
timetable, despite being advertised as running every Sunday throughout
I wonder whether you would be kind enough to put this on your website
where it may arouse some memories.
In particular I would be very grateful if anyone has a photo of either
the steam or diesel train; I am wondering
whether the steam working, as it began at Rhyl, used the BR Standard 4,
4-6-0 and 'Welsh Chieftain' set of
coaches that were otherwise only used on Mondays-Fridays.
Incidentally, it would also be
useful to know whether the Cafeteria Car in this train was formed in
the Rhyl or Llandudno portion.
An email query from
Nigel Wills - Browne is reproduced below.
Hi Geoff, I've just picked up a wonderful Eric Treacy book,
Roaming The Northern Rails, and there's a curious and very clear
(typical Eric T.) photo taken in
1948/49/50 at Llandudno of 44742 with a 7A shedplate, Page 206, right
at the back of the book.
It shows a pair of very strange looking headlamps with very small
bullseye lenses, the same sort of size lens that were fitted on
I remember some of the late Black 5s were fitted with Stones turbo
generators but this one doesn't appear to have electric lamps or cable
for them, so they must be paraffin....
Any replies about my Denbigh head scratcher??? (March 7th 2013 below)
(April 20th 2013)
Another email from
Nigel regarding the above is reproduced below.
Hi, Geoff, hope you are well, found another picture of the
On the 6G Caprotti 5s section of your website, by John Powell, there is
a photo of 44742 leaving Llandudno August 1948 by Eric Treacy.
It's the first photo and clearly shows those headlamps with unusual
east west carrying handles unlike the
normal ones with north south handles.
Maybe this dates and could be the same day as Eric's photo in Roaming
the Northern Rails. Keep up the good work, regards, Nigel.
March 7th 2013.
An appeal for information from anyone who is familiar with the track
layout and train movements at Denbigh
in the 60's, is requested below by Nigel Wills - Browne.
Hi, Geoff, I see you have my previous e-mail up and running
for all to see already (March 6th 2013), isn't technology wonderful.
Maybe one of your 6K (Rhyl) guys might be able to solve a mystery:
I used to catch the last train from Chester to Ruthin in the early
sixties, on arrival at Denbigh it used to overtake an up train which was
in the through platform - then stop and set back into the through
platform, behind the up train.
Then the loco, usually a standard 4 or standard 2, would uncouple and
proceed to Denbigh turntable, then return tender first, hitch up
and depart for Ruthin at great speed.
Was this so that the return ECS to Rhyl was "right way round" or
something to do with it's next turn the following day???
Further evidence of this move is a photo of Denbigh yard at that time
with polished rails leading to the turntable when
all the surrounding rails were rusty.
I realise this is a bit out of your area but Rhyl crews worked these
and somebody might remember the details.
Also belated thanks to the driver of 75033 who gave me an exciting 80
mph run from Ruthin to Denbigh on the footplate...There was a catch...
see that shovel, son,...see that pressure gauge...well keep stoking
until that needle reaches that red mark...then we'll be away....
(Roscoe Engineering, Liverpool.)
A further email from
Nigel is reproduced below.
Bill Rear's book"The Denbigh to Mold Line", it was dated 28/8/61.
Just read a bit more on your 6G site , the bit by J.M.Dunn about his
Mr.P at what was then 7A shed, fascinating...
An email from John
Powell is reproduced below with a humorous shed bash story from the
I have managed to watch the first two so
Very interesting, especially the Newton Heath shed one.
It brought a little chuckle to me when my memory went back to
around 1959 / 1960, when
four of us went to bash the Manchester sheds one weekday.
We went by train to the city then used public transport armed
with a shed directory.
When we arrived at Manchester Exchange, one
of the lads, Brian, was feeling a bit rough with a sickly
We suggested that he stayed on the station near a toilet, but he
said he would
come with us regardless.
We didn't have permits for any of the sheds, but we managed to gain
permission from the shed foremen at
Agecroft, Newton Heath, Gorton, the works, until we
arrived at Patricroft.
As we got to the door the foreman was standing outside looking
immaculate in possibly his best suit, and highly
" Can I help you lads?" he said. We asked him if we could have a
look around the shed, but he said
that he was expecting the district supervisor any moment, but if we
came back in an hour or so, he would gladly show us around.
It was at that moment that Brian`s stomach decided to turn
into a volcano, and he let fly all down
the foreman`s right leg, and again down his left leg and all
over his shoes.
We tried to apologise but he told us to go "forth and multiply",
muttering " blxxdy trainspotters", and don't bother
to come back.
Needless to say, we did not get to see what was inside
March 6th 2013.
An email from Nigel Wills - Browne is reproduced below.
Many thanks Nigel for your kind words and glad you enjoyed the website.
Your 6G website is brilliant, what wonderful nostalgic memories.
In the early sixties I used to spend a summer week with a Holiday
Runabout Ticket (No. 7 I think) and
used to travel many miles round all of North Wales from home in Ruthin.
The highlight was catching the Holyhead- Birmingham, was it 1G35, which
ran non stop from Holyhead to Chester
with my head out of the window all the way, noting all the signal boxes
and highlights of flying through Bangor and LJ, happy days.
I've been running a car repair garage for the last 35 years in the
Dingle underground terminus of the Overhead Railway
in Liverpool, which collapsed last year and we are still waiting
patiently to have it made safe
again, (see Dingle Tunnel collapse on Google), so I've spent time at
home exploring the internet and came across your wonderful
nostalgia fix which is better than reading a Bill Rear book.
Was sorry to read about 44686/7 being unreliable, have spent many hours
hauled at great speed by them on Llandudno-Manchester club
trains and also fond memories of 45600 Bermuda which was, I think, a
Patricroft 26F club train loco.
February 12th 2013.
An interesting email and photo from Stuart Ottaway are reproduced below.
The photo below was taken on Sunday May 17th 1964. Recorded in my log
book (which I still have) of sheds
I visited between July 1962- September 1966.
Whilst I visited 6A, 6B and 6D I never visited 6G - mores the pity. The photo shows 0-6-0 4F No. 44389 (a long term resident of 6G)
in very clean condition, taken a long way
from home territory, at 1A Willesden!
the good work.
Stuart has sent in
this further detail along with s scan of pages from his original
Two pages from my spotting logbook are shown below.
On the left page it shows 44525 (photo shown below)
- which I saw on June
5th 1966 at Crewe where it was works shunter.
The reason I mention it is that it was a long term
resident of 6G.
On the page North
Wales Coast Steam, Alan Bartlett
has a photo of it in store at 6G looking as if it was ready for
scrapping, with chimney sacked over.
However it was sent to Crewe and not withdrawn until
October 1966 becoming the last survivor of the class.
Interesting to see that 5B (Crewe South) had 94
steam on shed also
6D (Shrewsbury) - [previously Chester Northgate] had
43 steam on shed including 7802 on its way to Woodhams at Barry
Alan Roberts has sent in this
photo below, taken in 1974 of George Jones (aka Uncle George) on his
He was a block inspector (aka Signalmen's Inspector) for Llandudno
Junction. Photo shows his work colleagues
Left to Right back row : Eddie
Thomas Llandudno Junction Relief , Charles Roberts Crossing Keeper
Mike Martin Signalman Ty Croes?, Eric Hardy Signalman Llandudno, Glyn
Thomas Llandudno Junction Relief, Bill Green Colwyn Bay Relief,
Evan Jones, Signalman Llandudno Junction. Jack Petts Rhyl Relief. Jim
Sharp Signalman Colwyn Bay.
Left to Right front row :
Cyril Tyrer Llandudno Junction Relief, Mrs Jones, Tom Leach Signalman
George Jones, Ken Williams Llandudno Junction Relief.
More sad news from
Derek Williams arrived today to inform me of the loss of another 6G
stalwart. Ex - 6G driver "Boyo" Jennings
passed away peacefully at Plas Isaf Care Home, Rhos on Sea on December
19th 2012 and his funeral
was today at All Saints Church, Deganwy.
"Boyo" was born in
Dolgarrog on September 6th 1926 and started on the railway on January
1st 1942 aged 15 years.
The front and back
of the order of service along with some photographs of "Boyo" Jennings
are shown below.
An email and request
for details from David Hughes is reproduced below.
I have been researching railway breakdown cranes, for a model I have,
and have come up with the following list of cranes based at 6G.
RS1023/15 ? - c1938 ex Midland Railway
RS1029/15 1938 - 1943 ex Caledonian Railway
RS1027/15 3/1943 - 1/1961 ex North Staffs Railway
RS1023/15 4/1961 - 9/1963 ex Midland Railway
RS1008/36 9/1963 - 1964 ex LNWR
There is one other crane, RS1076/30 (ex LMS), which was at 6G between
1943 & 1944 and I don't know if it replaced RS1027 or was there at
the same time.
Before c1937 Crewe breakdown cranes appear to have handled any mishaps
in North Wales.
I have included a photo of my part completed model, to be RS1027/15,
hoping that my fellow readers can furnish some information so that I
can finish it.
This crane was different to the others in having outriggers, the orange
part on the model, to steady it when lifting. There is a photo of
the book, The Men of 7A/6G, and this shows it was painted black, had
electric lighting and had a roof over the operating space.
Info I need is regarding the match wagon, was the crane vacuum fitted
and was there an emblem on the side of the water/coal tank.
for your help.
Best wishes to you and my fellow readers for 2013.
The December issue
of "Steam Days" magazine features a very special local interest article
that will interest many local enthusiasts.
The article "Steam
Days at Llandudno Junction" by Stanley Jenkins examines the effect that
the coming of the London & North Western Railway had
on the development of Llandudno and it's hinterland in the wake of the
drive to improve communications with Ireland in the 19th century, as
subsequent railway developments through the nationalisation and beyond.
The twenty page
article is very well researched and written with great understanding of
the area as well as being illustrated by many obscure and
previously unpublished images of local steam through the "Glorious
At £4.10 this
edition of "Steam Days" is real value for money to anyone with an
interest in local railway history.
An appeal for help
from Anthony Ashley, regarding any photographic record or detail of the
repair shed that stood at Bangor station
alongside the engine and goods sheds is published below.
Any detail on this
would be appreciated and can be forwarded through
the email link on the HOMEPAGE.
I live in
Australia and I am creating a large N scale layout based on the North
Welsh coast in the period 1960-65. I have built a large shed to house the
layout in, which will be 35'X16'. I have been researching for approx 9
months and have pictures of most of the rail facilities for the 3
stations including Conwy, Penmaenmawr and Bangor.
three large sheds in Bangor station. In N scale each shed will be
approx 2' X 1'. The three sheds were the engine, goods and wagon or
engine repair shed. The engine
and goods sheds still exist and I have photos of them which provide the
basis for an accurate model.
In addition the material available for Conwy station in the first half
of the 1960's is also limited.
I have tried the HMRS, York Rail Museum, the LMS and LNWR societies for
information but without much success.
Do you have any ideas or access to material showing the Bangor repair
shed and/or Conwy station
which you would be willing to provide me with.
The 3 sheds going from east to west in the station were the engine,
goods and then the repair shed.
Google satellite images show where the track work used to run leading
into the repair shed.
I believe the repair shed was demolished after 1966.
If you are able to assist or come up with more ideas for gaining access
to plans or photos of the demolished repair shed in Bangor station I
would be very appreciative.
Google satellite image showing
where track work used to run into the repair shed and area of the shed.
A further email from
Anthony is reproduced below.
Thank you very much for your assistance. It is
I have spent the day insulating my shed for the rail layout. Time spent
on research is never wasted.
As indicated below I have been researching the
Conwy, Penmaenmawr and Bangor stations for many months now.
I have purchased the following books in conducting
Rhyl to Bangor by Vic Mitchell and Keith Smith
London Midlands by WG Rear
Railways of North Wales Bangor, Scenes for the past
:14 by W.G.Rear
North Wales Steam Vols 1 and 2 by E.N. Kneale.
None of these books show buildings to the west of
the Goods shed. I have looked through your very extensive web site, but
none of the photos show the large repair shed On the plan I have, the
repair (or engineers shed) was as large as the Engine shed.
As I indicated in the email sent previously I have
photos of the Engine Shed and Goods Shed, but the repair shed was the
third shed in the area.
The repair shed on the plan I have by the LMS shows the repair shed
further round to the west of both the engine and goods shed.
There used to be three sheds. I have looked on Google Satellite and you
can see where the tracks used to run
into the repair shed to the west of the goods shed.
Unfortunately the repair shed was torn down after
1968 but I am unsure when exactly this occurred.
For the purpose of my rail layout the repair shed
would still have been in existence and operational. The plan I have
indicates that there were offices over the repair shed.
Once again thank you very much for your assistance,
and if you are able to throw any light on the third shed it would
really be appreciated.
Another email from
Anthony is below in which he explains his choice of North Wales for his
mammoth modelling task.
to your query as to why I am modelling Wales.
seems that in reading 1000s of railway magazines many people’s interest
in railways sprung from their childhood
contacts, I am no different, although in my case it was not by seeing
the prototype locos and stations.
child of about 8 years I had a fairly eccentric great uncle. He owned
nearly many Hornby items from the mid 60s and earlier in O gauge.
He had a room in which these treasures were stored on shelves at least
2.5 metres wide and extending to the ceiling.
At the age when I was talking and visiting him he was in his 70s and no
longer able to climb on a ladder to access his marvellous collection of
I was given a privilege of climbing around the room, pull-out a model,
show my uncle only to be told that he had not seen that model for at
least 30 years.
This provided many afternoons of entertainment for both myself and my
We were both equally delighted with the models. One of his models was
the Flying Scotsman, which I thought was a great model.
I am now
53 years of age and have been in the Australian Army for nearly 30
years. I have moved around Australia for most of these
30 years, but as said in my last email, we have finally moved into the
last house my family will occupy, as I shall retire in the next 2-5
Hence I was able to build the shed which allows me to build the 36’X16’
layout. I have been interested in railways since my childhood as
decided to model Peterborough, including both the LNER and LMS part of
the station and lines.
When I attempted to do the track plan for it there were real problems
in modelling the approaches to the station, the track layout
was absolutely huge and the surrounding county was relatively flat and
an afternoon with a friend of mine in Brisbane looking for a Mainline
that included a couple of smaller stations, ran an expansive
number of passenger and freight operations and included a large station
capable of being modelled, while providing
a challenging freight environment for shunting operations and fantastic
looked through a number of books on stations pre Nationalisation. I
found Conwy, Penmaenmawr and Bangor
in the book Chester to Holyhead Railway by V.R. Anderson and G.K. Fox.
The stations are attractive as Conwy has the fantastic castle and
medieval town wall to model, is on a river, has 3
fantastic bridges, a small freight shunting area and a few hills.
Penmaenmawr is on the sea, is a picturesque holiday town, has a
fantastic mountain right next to it which includes
a marvellous rail and road viaduct between the ocean and mountain.
I am also going to slightly distort reality and operate the light rail
facility which moved the granite for the mountain to the main line rail
I understand that this closed some years earlier but will take some
licence, as it will give me the opportunity to model a Welsh quarry
is a great station to model given its position in a valley with tunnels
at either end.
It is quite large And from my reading was a hub for rail freight
traffic in the area in the early 60s, allowing a great variety
in the types of goods subject to movement to and through the station.
Given it was a primary station on the route to Ireland, this would also
provide varied freight requirements.
been modelling Napoleonic miniatures for the last 35 years. I have a
collection of 3,500 hand painted 15 mm figures which I have put a lot
of detail into.
challenge of producing a model railway layout of a specific location
for a specific period is
challenging, given the amount of research required to accurately model
been told by numerous modellers that I have no hope of completing this
task, but I have always been determined and
am expecting to spend 15 to 20 years in completing the whole layout.
divide the venture into 3 to make the task more manageable and resist
believe constructing base boards of sufficient quality for a layout the
whole layout would see me conducting this task
for many months with no variety and little satisfaction that I had
really moved forward.
Accordingly I shall begin with Conwy to the stage of building the base
bards, laying track, ballasting
and completing at least a fair proportion of the scenery. Once
completed I shall move onto Penmaenmawr.
career has taught the value of properly planning.
I have been planning now for 9 months and will need to continue this
No plan remains totally static and should be subject to amendment.
Realistically my completion date for the whole layout is 15 to 20
years, but Conwy and then Penmaenmawr are a much closer objective.
recruiting local railway enthusiast to assist in my layout.
direct answer to your question, I am not Welsh but decided on a layout
in the UK due to the great Flying Scotsman model I saw about 45 years
The great thing is that as a result of seeing your (6G) and Charlie’s (North Wales Coast Railway)
rail sites I understand that both the Flying Scotsman and the
Blue Peter visited
the North Welsh Coast line in 1966.
great Uncle would be very impressed if he were alive today.
This means that I can legitimately have both of these LNER locos
running a holiday excursion train on my layout while retaining a sense
I also plan on having some conserved LMS maroon engines as well!
I hope I
have not bored you too much with my ramblings and enthusiasm for the
task! If you are interested in seeing the Conwy
part of my plan I am happy to send it to you.
I have gone down to allotment level and using Google
Street view to record the design of many of the
houses and shops within the Town walls.
assistance is greatly appreciated.
November 17th 2012
An email from Bob
Barnsdale in answer to Anthony's above appeal is reproduced below.
From Bangor station, I have been told/remember, 2nd loco shed
with later roof (still standing), then 1st loco shed/later goods
shed (still standing) - only known photo of this building as a loco
shed Bill Rear Collection Llandudno Archives; then engineers
office workshops damaged by fire 1960's
Yours Bob Barnsdale
November 21st 2012.
An email I sent to
Anthony yesterday and his reply with two shots of where the layout will
be housed are shown below.
I have had a couple of
replies to your query which I have copied below.
Bob Barnsdale (below)
mentioned Norman Kneale who is a very well known railway photographer
who has had several books published, and who helped
me with rare shots when I started the website many years ago.
By coincidence I was
working in Menai Bridge Anglesey today and decided to call on Norman,
lives there, to ask if he had any recollections of the sheds.
He does remember the
building but remembers it mainly as an engineers office not a repair
shop or workshop.
He tells me that he has recently sold his vast collection of slides
from that era so can’t provide any photo
evidence which is what I was hoping for
but he did suggest a book titled “Chester and Holyhead Railway” by Greg
Fox and Anderson in which
he is certain there are photos of the structure in question.
I hope this is of help.
John Hobbs sent in this
There is a
view of the District Engineers Workshop at Bangor in Scenes from the
Past : Part 14; The railways of North Wales-
Bangor by W.G.Rear, look at Page 8; the lower photograph; shows
a view across the west end of the station; at the right hand side, the
end elevation of the District Engineers Office/Workshop can be seen;it
is dated circa 1920.
Bob Barnsdale (ex – 6G)
sent in this detail.
Hi Geoff, after general discussion with several ex
railway men etc. engineers office/workshop partly stood on stilts,
brick built, and possibly
three floors. perhaps Norman Kneale would have further details, yours
A reply from Anthony
is shown below along with two photos of the large shed which will house
you for your reply. I have looked through the book Chester to Holyhead
and there is no picture of the Engineers Office/Workshop in it.
That is definitely the building under consideration.
positive side page 8 of the book by WG Rear Railways of North Wales
Bangor is right on the mark and shows one side of the building in
I have the book but missed that picture and caption. I have also
realised that the colour picture on the back of that book also
contains a different
angle view of the same building (a porch with rails and posts outlined
in white are prominent)
The picture provided by Charlie Hume also has this building on the left
background and provides further detail.
I feel I
have enough material to have a fair idea of the building all thanks to
your assistance with the web site.
enclosed a couple of photos. One shows my efforts in partially
insulating the shed.
The other show an excellent location for a little piece of Welsh
history and gives an idea of the size available for the layout.
you very much.
My reply to Anthony
is shown below.
Anthony, Glad you now have enough detail for your structure.
layout is going to be something special, I’m sure, so please send me a
photo when it is up and running.
have published the shots of the shed on the NEWSPAGE as I know it has
created much interest with enthusiasts.
in the process of designing a new page by Chris Evans which shows his
layout of Llandudno Junction in the 60’s and the main line passing
keep watching the site for publication as it will probably be of
interest to you.
in touch, Geoff.
PROGRESS REPORT : JANUARY
Anthony tells me that he has finished
weather proofing, insulating and priming the shed.
He has begun construction of the base boards for Conwy and he has sent
in photos shown below to show the progress.
Luckily Anthony's family are behind his project as he tells me that
his wife and mother - in - law are commencing to paint the
shed walls with a sea and sky back scene. It will fill the wall and be
8 feet high.
Anthony tells me that although he has track plans for Bangor,
Penmaenmawr and Conwy stations he would appreciate any plans of
station and quarry or Conwy station and goods sidings along with other
buildings etc as
at the moment he only has photographs to base his detail on.
An email from David
Stapleton is reproduced below.
If anybody can help please email me through the link on the HOMEPAGE.
I have just been looking at the 6G Llandudno Junction website and found
I spent 8 years running on holiday at Llandudno in the 1960s so know
the area well.
Anyway, I was really interested in the hundreds of photos on the site
from the 1950s and 1960s, the reason being
I am trying to locate photographs of a particular engine – Class 3F
Research has shown that it spent time at the following sheds:
Crewe South 5B
Sowerby Bridge 25E
Holyhead 6J (1963/65)
Chester 6A (1966)
Given the Chester and Holyhead connections I was wondering if you might
have any idea as to the sort of duties
it might have been employed on during this time? Also if you might
suggest where I might find
photographs of this particular engine? Any advice or information would
be most welcome.
P.S. Pleas excuse my lack of knowledge as I am fairly new to this
Work finally started
this week on the revamp of Llandudno station.
A 3.5m Welsh
Government investment which includes European Regional Development Fund
structural funding, 1.5m from
the Department for Transports National Stations Improvement Programme
plus £150,000 from the Railway Heritage Trust has enabled
Buckingham Group Contractors Ltd to be given the go ahead to start work
The development will
provide a new frontage and ticket office, improved bus facilities and
customer information systems.
A request by Nigel
Bown on LOCAL RAILWAY NEWS PAGE (1)
for identification of a location in a photo has had a response from
I have copied the original request and photo below along with John
The engine is an LMS 4P Fowler 4-4-0 (3-Cylinder) compound numbered
925 (BR No. 40925) built 1927.
Is this pic of interest ?
It`s another " mystery " from North Wales or so it seems because the
loco was apparently shedded at Llandudno Junction [ 6G ] pre WW2.
Would John Powell or anyone be able to determine the location?
Many thanks in anticipation and Best Regards, Nigel.
Now this latest query postcard of Compound No
925 for Nigel. Enclosed below is a photo that I have managed to dig up.
I feel pretty sure it is taken at the East
end of Penmaenrhos tunnel where there was a
siding, and coaches and wagons were stored during the winter months
here and further along the down slow line towards
Abergele station. Llysfaen is built on a
mountain, so the houses in the background give a clue as well. I would
date the photo around the middle 1930s up to ww2, and
it could be a Chester to Llandudno stopper. 925
was built in 1927 at Vulcan foundry and came to 7A from possibly new
and remained up to June 1957, and transferred
to 5A, and was withdrawn during 1959.
October 12th 2012.
An email from Alan Roberts is reproduced below with a different opinion
on the above puzzle.
Been looking at the mystery photo submitted by Nigel Bown with
comments from John Powell.
Looking at the photo - to me it doesn't look like a photo taken
east of Penmaenrhos tunnel.
The photo appears to have been taken further south, probably in
Midlands?. The 6G loco may be on a working well away from North Wales.
The only clues I have in the photo are LNW telegraph poles but the
wooden fencing appears to be Midland Railway style as most fencing in
the LNWR were in favour of iron spike railings.
Also the location of the houses on the right are not the ones at
Llysfaen or Llanddulas - on this side of the line there would have been
The siding on the left is on a much higher level. Penmaenrhos
east of the tunnel was on the same level as the main line.
The siding for Kneeshaw Lupton Quarry was on the opposite side and
rise away from the main line as it fell towards Llanddulas.
The stabling of coaching stock took place on the slow lines
between Llanddulas and Abergele during the winter months.
I will have a look where the mystery location was taken
through books etc - again I think it may be more Midland than North
Wales to me.